Microrouter connection problems

[jaycambridge]

Good morning all,

I have recently purchased a Microrouter from a school as they were no longer using it. They supplied me with the router, a Dell computer and VR Milling V5. They didn't give me a RS232 Cable so I purchased one from Maplin. I bought the 9 pin to 25pin as in the manual. I have set up the router in my garage but I keep getting an error message saying the PC can not connect to the router, I have since purchased a 25pin to 25pin cable and a USB to 25pin cable, none of which work. When I press the connect to the real machine button, the staus of the machine is "initialising" and then I just get the error message.

Could the VR Milling V5 software be to recent for this machine?

Any help on this would be great

Jay

[Martin]

What is the serial number of the Router?

Have you checked the control does not have a USB socket?

[jaycambridge]

When you say control, do you mean the big black box that houses all the electrics? I can't see a USB port in there, I assumed it would be USB from the PC to that box as that's where the 25pin RS232 port is.
Serial number is HO1184/2

I'll try and get a picture of the sticker as the one I have is too high resolution so it wont let me send it

Thanks

Jay

[Martin]

Yes. If you can open the black box & take a photo of the card on the top left it should help as well as the serial plate.

[jaycambridge]

hi all,

I'm still having trouble connecting my machine.

I was given a diagram of a pin configuration which i used but isn't working. I have since opened up the big black box to have a look.

The attached pictures are what i have found.

Can someone please tell me what the make up of the rs232 cable should be based on my wires going to the port in the big black box, Only pins 2,3,4,5, and 7 are used, of which 4 and 5 are a little wire loop?

Any help would be great

[TDIPower]

You say you have a 25-25 way, looking at your info you say win7, Looking on the back of the DELL computer what colour and sex is the 25 connector you are trying to use (if it is purple and female sockets it is the parallel port!)? Is there a 9 way D type (green and with male PINS) that is the serial. I have a feeling that the 25way you are trying to plug into is actually the parallel and NOT the serial. I haven't seen a 25way serial port on a PC since the mid 90's (a PC of that age wouldn't run Win7)

The communication between the PC and Microrouter is only done on 3 wires, TX, RX and Ground (pin 2, pin3 and Ground on Pin7 in your photo) the loop back pins 4 & 5 is on the RTS/CTS request to send / clear to send and this is sometimes put in to the plug on the lead.

The easiest way to get it working would be to get a 9 pin connector to fit the PCs serial port, a 25 way to fit the 'black box' in the 9 way link pin 7 and 8 (replicating the loop back that has been set up in the microrouter). Link pin 5 on the 9way to pin 7 in the 25way (ground) Then link 9way pin 2 to 25way pin 3, and 9 way pin 3 to 25way pin 2.

The last part can sometimes be the issue as it all depends on how the 25way is wired in the microrouter. Basically you need to link the send from the PC to the receive on the Black box, and vice versa. So if the machine wont talk to the PC try swapping the wire so you are linking pin 2 to pin 2 and pin 3 to pin 3.

You also need to make sure the RS232 is set up on the PC, if the PC was working with the microrouter in the school then that should be fine. I have seen several issues with school setups, the PC gets replaced (not set up correctly) the person that knew how it all worked left, the lead get lost and staff are to busy to work it all out (don't know where to start). There is a page on here somewhere which gives the full cable pinouts, this cable has a lot more connected and plugs from the PC directly onto the control board if all else fails you should make one of those up that way you can focus on getting the PC setup correctly.

Hope that lot helps

Pete

[jaycambridge]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the info!

I'm not using 25 to 25, i'm using 9 female to 25 male. I tried to contact Denford directly, they were less than helpful to be honest, eventually i got them to give me the pin set up they said would work (using 9 wires). So i purchased a DIY rs232 build kit and got to it. No luck! So, i'll buy another (as i dont think i can pull the pins out once they are in) and have ago at the way you have described.

I'm desperate to get it going!!!

Thanks again.

Jamie

[DavidB]

I would keep trying as RS232 has probably caused more connectivity problems over the years than anything else because of the various ways it can be wired and the ambiguity around the use of the terms DTE and DCE, ie Data Terminal Equipment and Data Communication Equipment. I spent 20 years in software and had many occasions to use RS232 and sometimes had issues such as yours but luckily when I got a Denford Orac I could talk to it from my PC with the first lead I tried, so lucky on that occasion.

Do you know the comm port is actually working, I've seen them zapped and killed by static in the past. If you have another machine or if the same machine has 2 comm ports they can be linked together and hyperterm or similar used to check comms. Actually I think you should be able to jumper tx and rx at the far end of the lead to echo what is typed in to check. If you can verify the comm port works then a RS232 breakout box might be a useful tool although just having a look all the places that listed them no longer do them but this might be useful https://www.amazon.co.uk/Terminals-Adapt ... B00WJC109C . The breakout box I have used in the past looked like a big dongle and allowed you to plug in solid wire to make the connections from one side to the other so you could quickly test various connection formats. Is the machine a laptop as some use things like the MAX232 chip which generates the nominally +12V and -12V from 5V but on some the voltage is quite a bit lower and won't work with devices that expect near the +-12V levels.

[TDIPower]

Ill second you on the whole RS232 issue, I spent the late 80s, early 90s working on RF communications systems and when we started to do data for serial printers on systems it got silly. When I was getting my Starturn 5 up an running, I ended up re wiring the 25 way in the black box as it was easer than messing with all the leads I had built up following all the various pinouts on here. The important bit is getting the loop back set up and then TX to RX and visa versa.

Pete

[jaycambridge]

Thanks for all the help on here guys, I would like to say its helpful but i'm still confused!!!!!

My knowledge of what the wires do and what the abbreviations are is lacking to say the least.

When I wired up the RS232 cable, it was based on a diagram I had been given, i'm now looking for one of them based on what I have in the pic. Ideally i'm looking for someone to tell me what pin from the 9 female side needs to be linked to the 25 male side and where any loops, cross overs ect should take place. i.e.

9 female --------------------- 25 male
pin 3 -------------------------- pin 3
pin 6 -------------------------- pin 7
and so on
as that's what I used the last time but it was obviously not for my machine. I have seen some on here but there seems to be lots of different ones, and the kit I have, you only get to put the pins in once!!!

Sorry to be a total nube at this, I was just hoping for a plug and play machine!!!!!!!

Cheers

Jamie

[TDIPower]

This SHOULD work..

9 Way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>25 way
link pin 7 to pin 8 >>>>>>>>>> no connection (have in all test conditions)
pin 5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin 7 (ground) (have in all test conditions)
pin 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin 3, (Data)
pin 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin 2 (Data)

If that doesn't work link swap the Data lines to
pin 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin 2
pin 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin3

If that doesn't work try addingthe following links then try the data connection in both ways as above
9 way
Link pins 1 - 4 - 6 to each other.

[jaycambridge]

Cheers Pete,

My new RS232 cable kit is being delivered today so I will give it a go and let you know how I get on.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

Jamie

[jaycambridge]

No use!!!!

This is going to send me to an early grave!!!!!!

So, I used the the first pin configuration suggested above and this hasn't work. the kit i have used, you can not take the pins out once in so i can only have one go at it.

If anyone has any more suggestions on how i can sort it or even better, a rs232 cable that i can purchase i will be so grateful. Failing that, there might be a microrouter going cheap on here with a missing rs232 cable and a hammer through the glass!!!!!!

Thanks again

Jamie

[DavidB]

Jaycambridge,

What is the connection sequence you've used for the latest cable? I would strongly suggest you get the type of 9 way breakout connector I posted a link to earlier as that can allow you to wire a 25 way with all the wires fitted at that end and try various options at the 9 pin end without having to fit the pins into the shell. Other than that cutting the cable and prepping the wire ends and using a common terminal strip could be used but the breakout connector has the benefit of the connections being labelled and it was quite cheap. Where are you located, if you were local I could probably help as I have at least 9 varied RS232 cables sitting next to me at the moment in many of the myriad configurations but most are the simple few wire types like you likely need and another downstairs on the Orac which works for that which is a 9 to 9 cable plus a 9 to 25 way adapter, if necessary I can check the connections. Don't give up as RS232 is a common but minor hurdle which while a PITA at the moment will be quickly forgotten once the connection issue is resolved and you can get on a and play with the machine.

[DavidB]

As an additional thought is there any option for handshaking on the RS232. RS232 may have no handshaking, XON/XOFF, or hardware handshaking to control the flow of data from one side to the other and that is another layer on top of the physical connection layer but interacts with it which needs to be correct if enabled.

[TDIPower]

Ive been on a hunt!! 40 pages of RS232 issues come up on this site, I eventually found the one I was looking for. this one has a pin out that I tried when I had issues getting a Microrouter up and running a while ago for another school. It is a direct lead, goes from the PC to the control card (bypasses the internal link lead to outer case)

viewtopic.php?t=231

I am wondering if you have the correct machine selected within VR5. when you run the program, go across the menus on the top until you find the select machine option in a drop down.

Ill bet you have just got a microrouter selected when I am 99.9% you need to select 'legacy machines' and the microrouter in there! If you don't have the correct machine type selected the computer won't be able to talk to it.

SO check that and then try the lead formats again.

Re the type of connector you are getting, here are links to some solder bucket types.

https://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp/5501-0 ... dp/CN11125
https://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp/5501-2 ... dp/CN11122
This would also make life a lot easier https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... dapter.jpg

Hope that helps.... Betting its the wrong machine selection and pins 2-3 on the plug need setting correctly

Pete