Denford Orac Turret working on Mach 3 macro

maxporter · Post by **maxporter** » Thu 06 Mar , 2008 4:29 am

Denford Orac Turret working on Mach 3 macro
Formerly: I need help with an 8 station Orac Tool Turret

I am trying to convert an 8 station Denford Tool Turret to run on mach3. The turret is the type with the small maxon dc gearmotor and 3 optical sensors that read 3 discs for tool position. By the electrical schematics, it appears that the motor runs full current in one direction to find the tool, then reverses at half current to lock. I will be replacing the original controller card with a ModIO from Peter Homann of Homann Designs. I will be using all the electrical and electronics that came with the turret itself. What I need is a flow chart of the logics, or sequence of events, input and output for the tool turret motor and sensors. Also, does any one know if I am correct about the reduced current when the motor reverses for lockup? Once the motor reverses and locks the turret does the motor stay on?

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Max

Lone_Ranger · Post by **Lone_Ranger** » Thu 06 Mar , 2008 8:35 am

maxporter wrote:I am trying to convert an 8 station Denford Tool Turret to run on mach3. The turret is the type with the small maxon dc gearmotor and 3 optical sensors that read 3 discs for tool position. By the electrical schematics, it appears that the motor runs full current in one direction to find the tool, then reverses at half current to lock. I will be replacing the original controller card with a ModIO from Peter Homann of Homann Designs. I will be using all the electrical and electronics that came with the turret itself. What I need is a flow chart of the logics, or sequence of events, input and output for the tool turret motor and sensors. Also, does any one know if I am correct about the reduced current when the motor reverses for lockup? Once the motor reverses and locks the turret does the motor stay on?

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Max

I have 2 Cyclone Lathes with Barufaldi turrets and I believe that once the tool change movement is complete a small voltage (May be 12V) is applied to hold the turret in position.

.

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Thu 06 Mar , 2008 20:25 pm

The Denford toolpost fitted on the Orac Lathe was produced by denfords. It is fitted with a DC motor that drives a worm gear via a small gearbox.
When the turret rotates 24 Volts DC is applied. When it reaches the requested position the polarity is then reversed & dropped to 12 Volts. This is then held on permanently. At this point the toolpost will reverse onto the stop. If the voltage is too high when it is clamped there is a tendancy for the gear box to fail. The motor & gear box do get hot when in use & also vibrate.

There is a flow chart for the three sensors which I will post when time permits.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu 06 Mar , 2008 21:11 pm

The turret position feedback from the sensors is grey code not binary.

I am uploading the circuit diagrams for the Novaturn turret. I think this works the same way as the larger one. Maybe Martin can confirm?

Hope this helps

maxporter · Post by **maxporter** » Sat 08 Mar , 2008 4:40 am

Steve, Thanks for the attachments they were very helpful. Martin, I would appreciate any flow charts or sequence of event info you might dig up. This forum is great! Everyone is very helpful. I know a bit about binary I've done repairs to Fanuc 0T and 18T based hardinge lathes, but I had never heard of Gray Scale before! The turret is definitely using 3 bit Gray scale. I did a bit of research about Gray scale after your reply. So thank you for making me begin to learn something new. It is always a good day when you learn.

bradders · Post by **bradders** » Mon 10 Mar , 2008 13:22 pm

Orac Tool post

maxporter · Post by **maxporter** » Tue 11 Mar , 2008 4:08 am

Thanks Bradders! This is exactly what I needed. I should be able to get the toolpost working in Mach 3 now, Thanks to everyone here and Peter Homann.

bradders · Post by **bradders** » Tue 11 Mar , 2008 6:47 am

Good luck

stevep · Post by **stevep** » Sun 04 May , 2008 1:00 am

I'm interested to hear whether you got the ATC working with Mach. I'm currently upgrading an Orac with ATC, so I'll be getting on to the tool changer soon. I imagined using a PIC to control it, but I'm open to other ideas, especially easier ones...

maxporter · Post by **maxporter** » Sun 04 May , 2008 4:55 am

Hi Steve,
I gave all the info, that the guys on this forum supplied, to Peter Homann of Homann Designs and he seems quite certain he can make it work with Mach 3 and his modIO. He is currently working on it and I expect to hear from him soon. When I do I will post the results on this forum. If you wish to enquire him directly, he has a website..... www.homanndesigns.com. He's very likable and I am sure he would be interested in hearing from you, or anyone else that is interested in this conversion.

maxporter · Post by **maxporter** » Tue 08 Jul , 2008 20:38 pm

I have the turret working flawlessly in MACH3, thanks to help from people on this forum and the mach forum at yahoo. I am controlling it directly from a second parallel port with no modbus! I built my own power supply that provides 24vdc & 12vdc. The dc voltage is then applied to a DPDT Relay, the 24vdc is connected to the normally open contacts and the 12vdc (polarity reversed) is connected to the normally closed contacts. The motor leads are connected to the commons on the relay. I then used a low milliamp 5vdc 'wallwart' to provide the opto sensors with power for mach to read. With help from others, a VBscript macro runs the toolchanger in mach G&M code. It finds the right tool every time! If anyone needs info to make their turret work in mach3 I would be happy to share.
Again Thanks for all the help & Info

hpdrifter · Post by **hpdrifter** » Thu 18 Jun , 2009 10:46 am

Hi

The electrical / electronic mods all makes sense.
Is it possible to supply the VBscript macro that runs the toolchanger in mach G&M code.
It would be useful if you could post it on this site.

Regards

Len-tikular · Post by **Len-tikular** » Wed 15 Sep , 2010 10:05 am

Hi Max,

I'm attempting to convert my Starturn5 to run with mach3. It uses the same LCB3 controller as the machine you converted.

I'm wondering if the turret is the same as the Mirac/Orac. If so I would appreciate any schematics of your conversion.
Any other schematics of the hook up to the CNC4PC board would also be helpful.

Thanks

George

Len-tikular · Post by **Len-tikular** » Wed 15 Sep , 2010 12:27 pm

bradders wrote:Orac Tool post

Hi Bradders,

Is the Starmill 5 fitted with the same Novaturn PC 2252 Turret elecrics as the Mirac.
They both apear to use the LCB3 control board.
I know that the Mirac has a 3phase inverter driving the spindle motor whereas the ST5 has a DC spindle motor.

Seems there is lots more discussion on the Mirac, was it built around the same time as the 5. Which came first?

As I understand it the Turret Electrics outputs 'greyscale' code. Sheet 8 of the schematics for the Novaturn shows Turret details dated 1999. This compares with schematic NoS1934 dated 2/10/84. It apears that 'Orac' 'Starturn' and 'Mirac' all used the same Turret electronics. Is this right?

I hope you dont object to the bombardment of questions.

Many thanks

George

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Wed 15 Sep , 2010 15:02 pm

I presume you mean the Starturn 5?

The toolpost fitted to this would not be the same as the Mirac. Some of the very early Miracs may have been fitted with a similar but larger toolpost.
It would work similar but the Mirac has a position switch & a clamp switch while the Starturn has a sensor & no in clamp switch. The motor reverses on to the stop at half voltage & then is left running to lock the toolpost in position. The position as you say comes from 3 sensors in greyscale. It should be similar electrically to Orac & Novaturn.

Len-tikular · Post by **Len-tikular** » Wed 15 Sep , 2010 16:36 pm

Thanks for that Martin, again, I hope you don't mind the barage of questions. I thought the toolpost looked different but somehow got confused when I found that the electronics used to determine the position (using greyscale) are almost Identical across Starturn5 Orac and Mirac.

Somewhere someone has the Starturn 5 toolchanger working with Mach3, I just need to find out who, and maybe the can let me know how they did it!

Kind regards

George

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Wed 15 Sep , 2010 16:52 pm

It's exactly the same as the Orac mentioned above but the toolpost is smaller & the electrics are mounted slightly different.
The operation is exactly the same.

Len-tikular · Post by **Len-tikular** » Thu 16 Sep , 2010 8:53 am

Martin wrote:It's exactly the same as the Orac mentioned above but the toolpost is smaller & the electrics are mounted slightly different.
The operation is exactly the same.

Many thanks for all your help.

vandal968 · Post by **vandal968** » Wed 08 Dec , 2010 21:22 pm

Bradders,
I don't suppose you have the blueprints for the Orac changer itself do you? I'd like to build one from scratch. Not having to design it from scratch as well would save me a lot of time.

thanks,
v

maxporter · Post by **maxporter** » Sun 19 Feb , 2012 2:44 am

Hi Everyone,
I know this is a very old thread, but it appears that there is some interest as one of the members spent some time tracking me down. I do have a working 8 station turret running on mach 3. It is a denford turret with no changes to the turret or the electric components contained within the turret. I am not using the turret on a Denford lathe so,I did have to make a controller board with power supply external to the turret. I will find the schematic for the external controller and post it here as soon as I am able. Here is the VBscript macro for the M6Start file in Mach 3. This macro has been running the turret fine on my lathe.
Tool = GetSelectedTool()
OldTool = GetCurrentTool()
NewTool = Tool
MaxToolNum = 8 'Max number of tools for the changer

While NewTool > MaxToolNum
NewTool = Question ("Enter New Tool Number up to " & MaxToolNum)
Wend

Call StartTool

While SelectedTool <> NewTool
Call CheckPins
Wend

SelectedTool = NewTool

Call StopTool

SetCurrentTool(NewTool )

'//// Subroutines /////////

Sub StartTool
ActivateSignal(Output3)
'Code "G4 P4.0" 'Wait for the tool to rotate past the sensor
While Ismoving()
Wend
End Sub

Sub CheckPins
If Not IsActive(Input3) And Not IsActive(Input2) And Not IsActive(Input1) Then
SelectedTool = 1
End If
If Not IsActive(Input3) And Not IsActive(Input2) And IsActive(Input1) Then
SelectedTool = 2
End If
If IsActive(Input3) And Not IsActive(Input2) And IsActive(Input1) Then
SelectedTool = 3
End If
If IsActive(Input3) And IsActive(Input2) And IsActive(Input1) Then
SelectedTool = 4
End If
If Not IsActive(Input3) And IsActive(Input2) And IsActive(Input1) Then
SelectedTool = 5
End If
If Not IsActive(Input3) And IsActive(Input2) And Not IsActive(Input1) Then
SelectedTool = 6
End If
If IsActive(Input3) And IsActive(Input2) And Not IsActive(Input1) Then
SelectedTool = 7
End If
If IsActive(Input3) And Not IsActive(Input2) And Not IsActive(Input1) Then
SelectedTool = 8
End If
End Sub

Sub Stoptool
DeActivateSignal(Output3)
End Sub

I hope this helps someone
Max Porter shaftalignmentatyahoodotcom

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