2 denfords, one p.c. can anyone help ?

[audio.fi]

It sounds like you are running the "non-controlling" version of the software. There were 2 x version of this software with the same name (bad idea!) & I think you're running the wrong one.
I've just been searching round the Denford website and can't find any mention of the old DOS software for the Novamill
From what I remember it was the same software as the "FANUCMD for Triac" that can be found here https://www.denford.ltd.uk/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=51

Also check the .Go file.

IBM.RS2 1
$3F8 4 MACHINE
QDENFORD1.KBD 1
18.2 0
VGA.CRT 0
FANUCSMD.APP

Your latest post didn't include the VGA.CRT 0 line. If you've still got the black screen problem try changing to
EGA2.CRT 0
or
EGA.CRT 0

You must feel like you are going round in circles - it's almost 10 years since I worked with these & my memorys getting rusty

I have now doen what you suggested, and now I det some sort of activity; i.e. when I run it, the software comes on, and the milling machine starts to make sone sort of humming sound, as though a fan has come on ( i.e. apart from the ones in the control box).
My problem is that I don't know how to use the keyboard, and I have tried to find out the mapping, and indeed, on a previous post, someone asked the same but for a starmill (I think), and you tried to help there, but it seems that there is no proper button list for the keyboard, and can't understand why one was never made ?
Anyway, from your and others posts I found out a bit, and to this end, once booted to the software, I pressed alt h to home it, which brings on the x-y-z screen.
One there I pressed alt j and then the arrow keys on the number keypad i.e. 8,6,4 and 2, and also tried the arrow keys, but none seem to do anything, except that when I try these keys, a red rectangle keep saying "error emergency stop" and no keys then work until I press escape; Does this say anything to you.
Forgot to say; Now the led on the control board says either "S" or "5" not sure which it is, but does this indicate that the unit is functioning.
I also found that the unit only worked with the complete cable connected, i.e. the 24pin to 24pin rs232 black cable, then the beige 24pin to 9pin adapter cable. If I used only the 24pin to 9pin, it would not work.
I have written elsewhere on this forum in the hopes that someone might actually be using a novamill with the dos software, and know what is wrong, but as yet, no-one has answered. Have you any idea what I should do next ?
Thanks.

P.S. On both occasions, when you wrote what text should be in the go file, on the last line you said it should be "fanucsmd.app"

I changed this to be "fanucmd.app" Am I correct, or should it be with the "s" in it ? Thanks.

[Martin]

The machine needs to be connected to the PC via a RS232 lead. It sounds like you have been supplied with a 25 way to 25 way RS232 lead & a 9 to 25 way converter. The converter was supplied to enable the RS232 lead to be connected to a 9 way serial port, so both leads are rquiered as you have found.
It now appers that you have a Emergency stop condition. Is the E Stop push button released? With the software linked & the E-Stop button released the 7 segment LED should read "8" (powered up & initialised).

[audio.fi]

The machine needs to be connected to the PC via a RS232 lead. It sounds like you have been supplied with a 25 way to 25 way RS232 lead & a 9 to 25 way converter. The converter was supplied to enable the RS232 lead to be connected to a 9 way serial port, so both leads are rquiered as you have found.
It now appers that you have a Emergency stop condition. Is the E Stop push button released? With the software linked & the E-Stop button released the 7 segment LED should read "8" (powered up & initialised).

Yes, it was the stop button (you'd never know it was in, until you pull it out !!). Once I did this, the led said "8".
Then I think I did stupid thing. I presses alt=h to bring up the x-y-z screen, and then from a previous posting thought alt-t replicated the traverse button, and then pressed the right arrow button ( I think) of the numbers keypad i.e. "6" or it cold have been "4"; The table started to move to the left, all the way, and when it got there made a loud grinding sound, so I pushed the emergency stop, which worked. Thinking that if I did the same again but pressed one of the other arrow keys, it would move the opposite direction, I tried but it won't move away from it's limit. I thought there are limit switches on these to protect the motor / gears etc, so is there something wrong, or could it be the software being the wrong one and it's Limits are set differently ?
Any ideas how I can get it back to where it was as I don't want to leave the table sitting over like this, and any other help you can give.
Thanks.

[Martin]

The Novamill does not have any overtravel switches fitted. It does have a datum switch at the end of each axis & from there the software limits are set.
It may just be that the machine "opt" file is not correct for your machine. If you have the serial number & year of manufacture we may be able to find it & post it.

The alternative for now is to change a pair of wire goining to the X axis stepper motor. There are four wires to each motor. Each has it own orange plug going in to the Smarstep/Denstep board in the electrical panel. The four wires to the X may be marked up but I think they connect in to the plug on the top right of the board. The card may be marked as "X" or "axis 0". It should be wired using Black, Orange , Red , Yellow. If you swap the black & orange wires over the motor will then run in the opposite direction & hopefully towards the datum switch .

For your information the procedure is that the axis rapids towards the datum switch & then once the switch is activated it slows & backs off the switch before stopping. It may be that the datum switch is faulty so it`s backing off slowly.

[audio.fi]

The Novamill does not have any overtravel switches fitted. It does have a datum switch at the end of each axis & from there the software limits are set.
It may just be that the machine "opt" file is not correct for your machine. If you have the serial number & year of manufacture we may be able to find it & post it.

The alternative for now is to change a pair of wire goining to the X axis stepper motor. There are four wires to each motor. Each has it own orange plug going in to the Smarstep/Denstep board in the electrical panel. The four wires to the X may be marked up but I think they connect in to the plug on the top right of the board. The card may be marked as "X" or "axis 0". It should be wired using Black, Orange , Red , Yellow. If you swap the black & orange wires over the motor will then run in the opposite direction & hopefully towards the datum switch .

For your information the procedure is that the axis rapids towards the datum switch & then once the switch is activated it slows & backs off the switch before stopping. It may be that the datum switch is faulty so it`s backing off slowly.

Thank you for the info, but I am not keen on messing about inside the unit at all.

From what they said in the school, it was only used maybe a couple of times to demonstrate that it works, and looking at the sample that came with it I believe them. So isn't it unlikely that the datum switch is not working if it has had such slight usage ?

Can't I just press a button to make it go in the opposite direction using the keyboard, and then press the emergency stop button when it gets near the middle ? If so, what should I press on the qwerty keyboard ? I will then leave it alone until I get a grasp as to what I am doing with it.

Anyway, I think I need to start at the beginning again, and my first question would be, am I using the correct software for my machine i.e. a novamill ?
I was advised that the fanucmd that I downloaded from the download section was possibly the non-functioning version of fanucmd, and that I should use fanucmd for triac.
Surely the correct software is in the download section for the novamill so that it should just work right with a novamill.
Or have I got it wrong and I am using the right software, but it needs tweaking to make it work ?
Isn't there a sticky for using these dos softwares, or could anyone here give me some detailed help, what I should do, from which software to use, to how to configue it, to what the key mapping is for the qwerty.
I have got the tutor keyboards but haven't got a p.c. with the required 2 serial ports but should be getting one soon. Should I wait until I get that, or can someone help me until I get one ?

P.S. The machine serial number is 80715A and made in 1998 (this is from the manual, and they one had the one machine). Thanks.

P.P.S. I have just had another look at the machine to try and visually see where the limit switch is. I can see a micro switch behind the motor, but this is at the opposite end of where the table is jammed, i.e. the motor on the table is all the way to the left so much so that the cable from the motor is actually touching the side of the white case. There only seems to be one microswitch, so does this indicate that there is not a problem with it, but that the table went in the wrong direction for some other reason ? Thanks

[Martin]

The X axis datum switch which is fitted behind the motor is the only datum switch on view. The Y axis is under the front concertino cover. The Z is behind the cover plate on the right hand side of the colum.
On power up the first thing the software does is Datum the machine. Therefore each axis should travel towards it`s datum switch & then back off slowly.
Does the X axis daum switch feel like it is working?
If we can find the record sheet from when it was built we should be able to correctly configure the OPT file & work out what software it was shipped out with. I will see if I can find the info.
If the switch works OK then if you can somehow keep it pressed in & then ask it to home the axis will then move slowly to the right away from the cabinet. You will then need to press the ESC buttton to stop it.

[bradders]

Original shipping details

Control - Smartstep 3

EPROM- 1,.6H/S JD5

DOS Software version 2.101

FANUCMD.OPT (File details)

NARROWSIMBOX 0
SHOWTOOL 0
USE3D 0
FANUC_SDEVICE machine
UTILS_MENU_1 Dos Access
UTILS_GO_1 dos
TOOLORIENT 0
HIGHSPINDLE 5000
SLAVE_SPINDLEF 0.85
highfeed 1500
highfeedz 1000
DATUMFEED 600
MAXCONTOUR 120
SLAVE_CONTOURFEED 0.2
SLAVE_CONTOURANGLE 0.2
XIO 1
(=============
TOOLUP 0
(TOOLCHANGEZ 43.5
(TOOLCHANGEX 225
(TOOLCHANGEY 150
moverangex 225
moverangey 150
moverangez 115
ATC 0
MAXDATUM_X 0




FANUCMD.GO (File details)

IBM.RS2 1
$2F8 3 MACHINE
DENFORD.KBD 1
18.2 $3F8 4
VGA.CRT 0
FANUCMD.APP

[audio.fi]

The X axis datum switch which is fitted behind the motor is the only datum switch on view. The Y axis is under the front concertino cover. The Z is behind the cover plate on the right hand side of the colum.
On power up the first thing the software does is Datum the machine. Therefore each axis should travel towards it`s datum switch & then back off slowly.
Does the X axis daum switch feel like it is working?
If we can find the record sheet from when it was built we should be able to correctly configure the OPT file & work out what software it was shipped out with. I will see if I can find the info.
If the switch works OK then if you can somehow keep it pressed in & then ask it to home the axis will then move slowly to the right away from the cabinet. You will then need to press the ESC buttton to stop it.

I managed to get the table to the middle by messing about with the keyboard buttons, i.e. alt-h then alt-t and one of the number buttons made it start moving towards the middle with my finger on the datum switch. Thanks, as I didn't like leaving it hanging over like that.
I will leave it alone now until I get an older p.c. (I have one coming next week but obviously won't know if it works until I try it out).
Thanks for all your help.

Original shipping details

Control - Smartstep 3

EPROM- 1,.6H/S JD5

DOS Software version 2.101

FANUCMD.OPT (File details)

NARROWSIMBOX 0
SHOWTOOL 0
USE3D 0
FANUC_SDEVICE machine
UTILS_MENU_1 Dos Access
UTILS_GO_1 dos
TOOLORIENT 0
HIGHSPINDLE 5000
SLAVE_SPINDLEF 0.85
highfeed 1500
highfeedz 1000
DATUMFEED 600
MAXCONTOUR 120
SLAVE_CONTOURFEED 0.2
SLAVE_CONTOURANGLE 0.2
XIO 1
(=============
TOOLUP 0
(TOOLCHANGEZ 43.5
(TOOLCHANGEX 225
(TOOLCHANGEY 150
moverangex 225
moverangey 150
moverangez 115
ATC 0
MAXDATUM_X 0




FANUCMD.GO (File details)

IBM.RS2 1
$2F8 3 MACHINE
DENFORD.KBD 1
18.2 $3F8 4
VGA.CRT 0
FANUCMD.APP

Thanks for this info. Please can you answer a few questions :-
Am I using the correct software i.e. fanucmd for triac ?

Once I get an old p.c. with 2 serial ports, is the go file you listed correct and needs no changing ?

In the opt file you have listed, there is a line that shows :-

(=============

Is this a format error i.e. should it be in line with the next line of test i.e. "toolup 0" , or will a copy and paste just as it look on screen be o.k. to change the opt file ?

Thanks, you are all being so helpful, it is really appreciated.

[Martin]

It`s as above.

Just copy & paste.

The last line in the Go file tells it what software to load therfore Fanucmd is correct.
The bracket lines are ignored.
The Go file is set to use the Desck Top Tutor which will need connecting via a straight 25way to 25way connecter or a 25way to 9way converter & not a RS232 lead.

[audio.fi]

It`s as above.

Just copy & paste.

The last line in the Go file tells it what software to load therfore Fanucmd is correct.
The bracket lines are ignored.
The Go file is set to use the Desck Top Tutor which will need connecting via a straight 25way to 25way connecter or a 25way to 9way converter & not a RS232 lead.

Thanks Martin. I have aldredy got the ribbon style cable for teh tutor but this obviously won't work with a p.c. so I got two 25 way to 9 way cables when I got the lindy card, so hopefully it is wired correctly (i.e. is there only one type of 25-9 way cable ?).

I think I did not explain myself properly about the fanucmd question.

I originally downloaded fanucmd from the download section, and when I could not get it to function, I was advised by Mr Magoo that it might not be the "functioning" version (presumably it is a version that you can only simulate with), but that fanucmd for triac might be the one for my novamill, and this is what I have been using during this testing.
I do understand about the last line of the go file, but what I was asking is whether the fanucmd for triac is the correct software to be using or is there another fanucmd that is for the novamill.

Thanks.

[Martin]

The Fanucmd is the same more or less. I think that there a message file that may be different but it is only used to display text during connecting to the machine so the Triac software will be OK.

[audio.fi]

The Fanucmd is the same more or less. I think that there a message file that may be different but it is only used to display text during connecting to the machine so the Triac software will be OK.

Thanks Martin,

One last question;

I forgot to tell you that after getting the table roughly to the middle, the x-y-z screen said :-

X +290.000 FEED 900 OVERIDE 100%

Y +170.000 TOOL 1

Z +235.000 SPINDLE OFF


JOG STEP 0.005 SPINDLE FORWARD
OVERIDE 100%


From this display, can you tell me if this looks like it is functioning o.k. so I can leave it alone, until I get better aquainted with how to use it, and anyway, I need to test the novaturn in the same way.
Thanks for all your (and others), time and help.

[Martin]

Yes that`s fine but the Values are for the Triac & not the Novamill. If you update the OPT file to the one above you should get X225, Y150 ,Z115.
The main point is that the machine must have performed it`s home routine so it sounds like you are allmost there with it.

[audio.fi]

Yes that`s fine but the Values are for the Triac & not the Novamill. If you update the OPT file to the one above you should get X225, Y150 ,Z115.
The main point is that the machine must have performed it`s home routine so it sounds like you are allmost there with it.

That's great.

I am now thinking about trying the proper home routine to get the table where it should be, as it could not have completed the home routine as it stopped as soon as I let go of the datum switch button.

I have now modified the opt file, so if I run the software again, then I press alt-h , what should I press then to make it home itself ?
I was using alt-t but not sure if this is right or what to press after that if it is right.
Thanks.

[Martin]

I can`t remember. Is it just Alt+H then Z Then X then Y ?

[Mr Magoo]

Just got back from a long weekend break so good to see Martin has got you up and running.
Yes - I think it as Alt-H for HOME mode, then just press X, Y or Z to datum that axis.

[audio.fi]

Just got back from a long weekend break so good to see Martin has got you up and running.
Yes - I think it as Alt-H for HOME mode, then just press X, Y or Z to datum that axis.

Hope you had a nice time !

I must admit, I am a bit scared to use it anymore until I get an old p.c. so I can use the tutor keyboard. The episode with the table making a grinding sound has put me off until I can use the manual that I have that came with it.
One question that I would like to know please:-

It seems from the manual that the keys on the tutor that control movement are disabled in the software i.e.(from the manual) :-
"the following keys perform no functions when used with the offline software;
Axis direction
-X , +X, -Y, +Y, -Z, +Z, TRVRS, Spindle (SPNDL.CW, CCW, and STOP)"

I was under impression that I could manually control the movement of the table etc by using the keyboard. Have I got this wrong ? Is the keyboard only used to write and edit programme code ?
Thanks.

Also, I will want to test the novaturn as well but obviously I wlll now wait until I get the older p.c. (should be this week). Will I have the same situation as with the mill, i.e. I have downloaded flstep, but is this the right one for the novaturn, is it the functioning version, and should the "opt" file be right for my machine.
It's serial number is :-
80715B and was made in 1998.
The serial numbers match i.e. the mill is 80715A ; How rare must that be !!

Also, in the literature I got with the machines, there is a book called "Lathe Cam Designer". It looks as thought it runs from windows 3.1 or above.
Would it be worth downloading this and trying it, although, it think you would need a dongle or keycode floppy to make it work. However, since it is old, could it be that it does not need these anymore and it will run o.k. Thanks.

[Denford Admin]

Also, in the literature I got with the machines, there is a book called "Lathe Cam Designer". It looks as thought it runs from windows 3.1 or above.
Would it be worth downloading this and trying it, although, it think you would need a dongle or keycode floppy to make it work. However, since it is old, could it be that it does not need these anymore and it will run o.k. Thanks.

LatheCAM was still supplied until recently, so it's not free at the moment...

[audio.fi]

Also, in the literature I got with the machines, there is a book called "Lathe Cam Designer". It looks as thought it runs from windows 3.1 or above.
Would it be worth downloading this and trying it, although, it think you would need a dongle or keycode floppy to make it work. However, since it is old, could it be that it does not need these anymore and it will run o.k. Thanks.

LatheCAM was still supplied until recently, so it's not free at the moment...

Thanks for letting me know. Perhaps it might be free by the time I have learnt enough to use it !!

[Martin]

Novaturn OPT & GO files.




autoerror 0
dragmarking 0
displaysize 3 {PRODUCT OPTIONS FILE AS OF 10/09/96
narrowsimbox 0 {FOR NOVATURN
utils_menu_1 Dos Access
utils_go_1 dos
utils_menu_2 Turning Designer
utils_go_2 ldesign
mirac_sdevice machine
showtool 0
{--------FEEDS & SCALING-----------------
slave_accel 120
highfeed 1000
highfeedz 1400
{--------SPINDLE----------------
slave_spindlelag 35
safespindle 150
slave_encoder 2000
slave_thread 1
HIGHSPINDLE 3500
{--------TOOLPOST---------------
SLAVE_ATC 3
MAXTOOL 8
{--------X-AXIS-----------------
MACHINEEXTENTX 140
MOVERANGEX 140
CHUCKCENTREX 60
CHUCKX 80
JAWSX 10
BILLETX 30
{-------Z-AXIS------------------
MACHINEEXTENTZ 208
MOVERANGEZ 178
CHUCKZ 20
JAWSZ 10
BILLETZ 50
--------MISCELLANEOUS FUNCS-----
datumorder 1

IBM.RS2 1
$2F8 3 MACHINE
DENFORD.KBD 1
18.2 $3F8 4
VGA.CRT 0
FLSTEP.APP