Viceroy 280 VS new owner - some problems

[A11an]

Hi

Just wondering if anyone can give some advise on the Viceroy I have just bought, I know very little about lathes let alone the Viceroy 280.

It has some missing parts, broken timing belt, a tooth missing from a pulley and a tooth missing in the gearbox, I've taken some photos for you to see (post separate), I'm not sure if the chipped cogs will be ok or not, really after some experienced advice.

A lot of the problems have come about with the machine being operated with the side cover open as there were lots of swarf in there on the gears.

Got a new belt but not sure how to fit, and not sure how line up the gearbox cover levers etc

many thanks

Allan

[Andy B]

Hi Allan,

Welcome to the forum and to the 280 owners club!
Have you posted the pictures you mentioned? The first thing is to understand which 280 model you have and where the damage actually is.

Your suggestion that the machine has been operated with the side cover open may not be correct - I have noticed on mine that due to its large headstock bore swarf tends to get into the bore, travel along it then drop out the other end. As the left hand end of the spindle has so little overhang, it just drops onto the gear train.
Easily solved by regularly cleaning the bore, putting a plug in the LH end for most machining ops, or making a small extension for the shaft to extend sufficiently beyond the gears.

Where did your lathe come from?
Sounds like school abuse from your description!
Andy

[A11an]

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[A11an]

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[Andy B]

Hi Allan,
You have exactly the same model as mine - including the nice ball handles on the top-and cross-slides, before they were changed to plastic ones.

Let's start with the biggest issue - the photo with the arrow 'something missing?
You are missing the auxiliary motor and drive mechanism for the variable speed. No point in trying to replace those IMO, unless you come across one being broken for parts (unlikely!).
Assuming the main motor is 3-phase, then best buy an inverter - will give you an even greater variable speed range than the original, with a soft start as well.
You could either keep the vari-speed pulley/belts that you have, or change these for a 1:1 toothed belt drive and sell the vari-speed bits for spares.

The damaged / missing teeth on the LH end - good thing is they are only on the feed / threading gear train, so you don't need those gears for basic turning.
They don't take a lot of load and run fairly slowly so, seeing as you have welding gear in your pictures, you could try building up the damaged / missing teeth then reshaping them by hand.
Alternatively, I think the drawing for them should be on here somewhere, so you could turn up a new blank and find a local jobbing shop (or maybe someone on this board?) with a gear cutter of the right DP to cut the teeth for you.

I see what you mean about swarf in the gearbox itself - can't explain that! I also can't see the broken tooth in there. Can you highlight it?

In the second picture - there is a threaded stud that sticks out from the bottom of the headstock. Did that have a set of spare gears on it? You'll need those to get the different feeds and threads as shown on the gearbox plate.

Overall, it hopefully shouldn't take too much work to make it into a decent machine again.
Hope that helps for starters.

Andy

[A11an]

Thanks for your help Andy

Looking at the gearbox a second time maybe it isn't that bad, some wear but should be ok, it has 1 missing tooth on the virtical cam that lifts the front gears up.

It was an eBay purchase, just took a chance with it, looks like a good machine but I dont want to waste money if they're not very reliable, already had to buy a chuck & tool post, no spare pulleys. The toothed timing belt snaped and I've got one coming tomorrow, what would cause it to break? I'm thinking abuse like you said.

I'm going to order a invertor as it seems much better anyway and won't be wasted if I were to change to another machine, but I do really hope the Viceroy will be a good enough machine.

Allan

[Andy B]

Hi Allan,

I wondered if it was the one recently on ebay.
Many people regard these as good, well-built and reliable machines - but they are not immune from damage through abuse, like any other machine tool!
The symptoms suggest that someone tried to engage the feeds / threading incorrectly (maybe combined with some general neglect) - it is important to follow the sequence described on the gearbox plate and in the manual for this.

The only problem I have had on mine since its rebuild was occasionally it would just cut-out - at first I thought it was the thermal cut-out but in the end tracked it down to a broken solder connection on the safety switch inside the gear guard. Easy fix!

Spare Viceroy gears occasionally come up on ebay, homeworkshop.org.uk, etc - most were common across the 5" and 280 series machines.
You should find any info you need by searching threads on here.
If not, just ask.

Good luck with getting it up and running.
Andy

[A11an]

Andy

I have a much better feeling about this now, I just put the gearbox plate back on and it all seems to turn ok, I think you are spot on about the abuse as the belt, chipped gear etc.

It was the one on ebay, probably paid too much for it but liked the more modern-ish (compared to myford) look and the cabinet.

thanks again

Allan

[A11an]

Hi

Stripped and fitted the toothed belt today also connected up the inverter, All's good and have had a play, made some chips anyway!

Want to have a go at repairing the damaged pulley, going to braze and machine back on my mill, I would like to get a cutter but can't for the life of me work out what the DP is?

Any ideas?

Overall diameter is 105mm, 64 teeth

I don't want to try the gearbox until I've fixed it

Allan

[A11an]

Andy

Do you know if there is anyway to connect up the rpm sensor and display on its own now I've got the inverter fitted

Thanks

Allan

[Andy B]

Andy

Do you know if there is anyway to connect up the rpm sensor and display on its own now I've got the inverter fitted

Allan

I'm assuming you have the contactor panel intact - bolted to the back of the headstock. On there should be a transformer - IIRC this has a variety of input tappings which would originally have been taken from one of the 3 phases. So you should be able to run a 240V single phase feed to it instead.
The transformer has 2 outputs - 24V for the contactor coils, and 10.5V for the speed display and work lamp.

The speed display board has a 5V voltage regulator on it - so if the transformer is missing than an AC supply between 5-18 V will be needed. (Note - this may depend on exactly which regulator your board has - there were at least 2 variants).

Andy

[A11an]

Thanks Andy

It's all there but.............

I have disconnected all the wires, but could easily connect them back up if i new how

Allan

[Andy B]

Hi

Overall diameter is 105mm, 64 teeth

Allan

16DP - but beware these are 20 degree PA, whereas many cutters are 14.5 deg PA.

Andy

[Andy B]

Thanks Andy
It's all there but.............
I have disconnected all the wires, but could easily connect them back up if i new how

Looks like you got some (black) wire tracing to do then...
'Henry Ford' wiring on most of these lathes
But some do have number tags on them!
Search for threads on 280 schematics - should help.

Andy

[A11an]

Hi Allan,
You have exactly the same model as mine - including the nice ball handles on the top-and cross-slides, before they were changed to plastic ones.

Let's start with the biggest issue - the photo with the arrow 'something missing?
You are missing the auxiliary motor and drive mechanism for the variable speed. No point in trying to replace those IMO, unless you come across one being broken for parts (unlikely!).
Assuming the main motor is 3-phase, then best buy an inverter - will give you an even greater variable speed range than the original, with a soft start as well.
You could either keep the vari-speed pulley/belts that you have, or change these for a 1:1 toothed belt drive and sell the vari-speed bits for spares.

The damaged / missing teeth on the LH end - good thing is they are only on the feed / threading gear train, so you don't need those gears for basic turning.
They don't take a lot of load and run fairly slowly so, seeing as you have welding gear in your pictures, you could try building up the damaged / missing teeth then reshaping them by hand.
Alternatively, I think the drawing for them should be on here somewhere, so you could turn up a new blank and find a local jobbing shop (or maybe someone on this board?) with a gear cutter of the right DP to cut the teeth for you.

I see what you mean about swarf in the gearbox itself - can't explain that! I also can't see the broken tooth in there. Can you highlight it?

In the second picture - there is a threaded stud that sticks out from the bottom of the headstock. Did that have a set of spare gears on it? You'll need those to get the different feeds and threads as shown on the gearbox plate.

Overall, it hopefully shouldn't take too much work to make it into a decent machine again.
Hope that helps for starters.

Andy

Andy

Would you be able to list the gears sizes I should have?

thanks

Allan

[Andy B]

Would you be able to list the gears sizes I should have?
Allan

See this thread
second post -gears A to G