Triac Tool Changer

Enny · Post by **Enny** » Tue 07 Apr , 2009 17:29 pm

Hello

After quite a long time I needed the tool changer of my machine again once.
Unfortunately, I had this to state, the spindle moves with the speed programmed last.
Actually the spindle should orientate itself very much slowly and then change the tool.

From time to time, in addition, the tool magazine does not turn completely from a tool position to the next one. The drive needs two turns for a complete change. Sometimes it makes only a turn, however. The tool changer stops between the tool positions (so to speak on half a position) and then tries to change the tool. This problem always appears. So it does not seem to be in connection causally with the first mentioned problem. Or possibly anyway?

Which suggestions for the elimination of these faults are there?

Thank you for the efforts

Enny

bradders · Post by **bradders** » Wed 08 Apr , 2009 8:05 am

On Newer Triac's, i'm not tool familiar with your 1992 model, you have to mnually rotate the indexing motor and geneva wheel (This can be difficult to do but presevere) until tool No 1 carousel holder is in line with the spindle. Then by pressing M27 this resets the tool changer. If it is losing position again try moving the sensor closer to the rotating "D" shaped plate on the carousel

Enny · Post by **Enny** » Wed 08 Apr , 2009 8:56 am

Hello bradders,

Seems to be a good idea to put the sensor a little more nearly at the plate. I will try this. Till now, if the problem appeared, I have always helped me, by having turned the tool changer by hand. The tool changer seems to be the same which you know.

Any idea to the spindle speed?

Best wishes

Enny

bradders · Post by **bradders** » Wed 08 Apr , 2009 9:05 am

Hi Enny,

I'm not sure about the spindle, as I was not at Denford's in 1992. I'm sure our Service Engineer Martin will respond to your enquiry

Regards
Bradders

Post by **Denford Admin** » Wed 08 Apr , 2009 9:15 am

When the tool changer indexes only 1 turn (instead of 2) it is because the system has seen the proximety switch signal rise and fall twice.
This extra false trigger is usually due to noise (a spike)... check the route of the sensor cable back to the cabinet and make sure it is away from any noisy devices (contactors / spindle drive / motor wires etc...)
If the cable has to go past any high voltage wires then route it to make it cross them at 90 degrees.
Also check that the cable shield is earthed well and any connector pins in between are secure and clean.

HTH

Enny · Post by **Enny** » Wed 15 Apr , 2009 16:32 pm

Hello Martin

Perhaps do you have a solution for the problem?
Primarily for the too high speed of the spindle at the tool change.

Thanks

Enny

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Mon 20 Apr , 2009 8:42 am

What speed does the spindle turn at during orientation?
Is it just not overshooting?
Is it consistant?
Does the spindle turn at low rpm when requested?

Enny · Post by **Enny** » Mon 20 Apr , 2009 21:07 pm

Hi Martin

1. The spindle turns with the speed programmed last (e.g. S 3800).

2. I am sorry, I do not understand this question. (Perhaps do you think the orientation of the spindle about the tool magazine?)

3. During the orientation the speed is consistently fast.

4. I can programme arbitrary speeds and adjust manually.

I hope these answers lead you to a solution of the problem.

Thanks

Enny

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Mon 20 Apr , 2009 23:07 pm

Not too sure.

Have you tried doing a M19 in manual mode?

What happens if the last speed requested in the program before the toolchange request was 150 rpm ?

What if you add S150 to a new line before the M06 request ?

Is the spindle still running when the toolchange is requested ? Try adding a M05(Spindle stop) to the line before the M06 request.

Does the ATC work OK if you run it in manual mode?

Can you post a coppy of your program.

It could well be that the software expects the spindle to be stopped before it attempts to orientate but it may not check it, therfore putting the M05 before the toolchange request will overcome this.

Enny · Post by **Enny** » Tue 21 Apr , 2009 17:11 pm

Hello Martin

I am sorry but I have not given you the correct information in the last Post.

After I have tested today once again, I had to state the following.
The speed of the spindle seems to remain constant. Unfortunately, I do not have any possibility of measuring these. Approx. 4000u/min could be.
However, the programmed spindle speed is displayed at the screen(e.g. 180). As well in the manual mode.

The spindle turns CW and also CCW depending on request.
You show at the screen "forwards" even if the spindle CCW runs.

If a tool change happens in the programme, the spindle stops. It proceeds to the change position. After that it starts to turn very fast and stops after short time. After that the tool change starts. This fails, though, since the orientation does not turn out well with a too high rotational speed.
The same happens also in the manual mode.

I hope you can show me the cause of the fault with this information.
I do not hope, a faulty frequency converter as a cause.

Thanks

Enny

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue 21 Apr , 2009 17:17 pm

You need to check the analogue voltage going to the spindle drive. It should be 0 - 10 volts DC depending on the speed requested.

Therfore 2000 rpm should read 5 volts DC.

Try running the spindle at 100rpm & checking what the analogue is at. It should be around 0.5 volt DC.

Enny · Post by **Enny** » Tue 21 Apr , 2009 17:37 pm

Hi

Thanks.

Can you tell me at which cables I must measure? Or is there only one (two)?

Thanks

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue 21 Apr , 2009 20:04 pm

The analogue goes in to the drive on terminals 2 & 3.

viewtopic.php?t=634&highlight=sprint

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Wed 22 Apr , 2009 14:16 pm

Have a look at the ribbon cable that connects the two cards in the rack together. Check both connecters are fully in.

Enny · Post by **Enny** » Wed 22 Apr , 2009 16:45 pm

Hi Martin

I have made pictures of my machine. Unfortunately, I could not use the picture appended by you.

The connections 54 and 55 are described as 0 volts and spindle analouge on the pages 3 and 5 of the drawings of the electrical wiring.
I have marked these connections in my pictures. I am but not for certain whether it is the right.

I have the following values measured:

Not turning spindle: 11V.
2000 U/min: 11.22 V
150 U/min: 11.22 V

Thanks

Enny

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Wed 22 Apr , 2009 17:02 pm

Yes sorry. Most Triacs were fitted with a Sprint 1200 drive. Your machine is slightly earlier & looks to have a Lenze drive in it. It may be worth removing wires 54 & 55 from the I/O board & repeating the test.

Th 11volts DC should drop.

Check the ribbon cables are all fully seated.

Enny · Post by **Enny** » Thu 23 Apr , 2009 16:03 pm

Hi Martin

I have followed your suggestion. After I had removed the cables and the resistor, I got the following values.
Not turning spindle, 2000 U/min and 150 U/min 11.3 volts each.
Is it possibly the wrong place to measure?

Thanks
Enny

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Thu 23 Apr , 2009 17:10 pm

Wires 54 & 55 are the spindle analogue. It sounds as though it is allways sat around 11 volt DC. Thus causing the spindle to run at top speed.
It must be now down to one of the cards in the rack. I would presume that the fault is on the custom card.

Enny · Post by **Enny** » Sun 26 Apr , 2009 16:04 pm

Hi Martin

On Saturday I have removed all plug-in cards from the machine and subjected to a thorough visual inspection. Unfortunately, I could not recognize any faults. After I had taken everything again to its position, I did a last test.
What I shall tell you, everything worked very well suddenly.

Unfortunately, I cannot say why.

I thank you for your patient support very much.

Best wishes

Enny

Post by **Denford Admin** » Mon 27 Apr , 2009 9:22 am

I'd guess at corrosion on the contacts...
Try some electrical switch cleaner like this:
https://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.299/.f

which will also protect the contacts for the future

Denford Software & Machines

Denford Software & Machines

Triac Tool Changer

Triac Tool Changer