IMO Jaguar CUB for ORAC

[kato]

Hi,
does anyone know how many kilowatt motor this can run?
Cant find a manual.
Looks like this:

/Jim

[Denford Admin]

I thought I'd seen a manual somewhere...
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2366

[Denford Admin]

ps- there are some others if this is the wrong one, but I'd need the model number/type

[kato]

Thanks for the manual
The cover on my vfd is missing so I took pictures on the numbers I found.
The top picture have the pin on 1,5kW, but I dont want to by an 2hp motor until Im sure.











/Jim

[DMIOM]

hi Jim,

I too used to have a similar inverter/VFD on my Denford Senior 3C mill.

The model number is on the top line of the black data plate at the top right of the blue plastic case; it then goes on to state the capacity in KVA on the next line - in my case my old VC-150 was rated at 3 kVA

One word of caution if the inverter has been out of use for some time - old electrolytics can let go if they are powered up again after a long dormant spell - they can either just leak/ooze; or they can rupture in dramatic style. The new ABB inverter/VFD I fitted to my mill came with oodles of caution; even with brand-new units they say a special capacitor reforming procedure is needed if it hasn't been used within two years of manufacture.

What I do with any old or second-hand kit like this is to power it up out in the middle of a concrete area and leave it on for a couple of hours - it may let go later, but it significantly reduces the risk.

Dave

(think this just crossed with your last post! - wlll pull my old one out and hava a look at the PCB and reply more. One thing though - as there is significanly hazardous voltages therein I would absolutely cover it before using it!) Dave

[DMIOM]

OK Jim, sorry I had initially assumed the first photo you posted was of your drive.

Have just pulled my old VC-150 out

First thing is that there doesn't appear to be any marking on the board as to its model or capacity BUT on my unit, and in the one whose photograph you included, the is a paper Quality Check label affixed to the top of one of the capacitors and that bears the hand-written model number.

Your unit is, I think, later than my VC-150. The inspection date and inspector's initials are marked on the paper label and in ink on the board (at least in mine). My unit bears " 87-07 " which I had interpreted as likely to mean July 1987 - but since yours bears " 90-26 " maybe its the week number that follows.

Have been over the board itself - nowhere else can I espy a definitive "VC-150" other than outside black label and the paper QA label on the capacitor. All my PCB nos. are subtly different to yours....

On mine, the board with the output amps/KVA jumper is the daughter board onto which the optional braking resistor is connected (the big fast-on terminals), so I don't know if the jumper is just on there for convenience? or whether it relates to the brake? On the big photo you posted, and in the close-ups of yours, it looks as if the daughter board has been eliminated and its all one board?

What I would do is carefully pull the jumper off. Have just done that on mine and there is a clear difference between the shiny pins where the jumper just came from, and the other slightly-tarnished ones. If you can see a clear differentiation, and you know the drive came from a previously-functioning piece of kit, then I would think it is likely to be a drive of the capacity as per the jumper.

What I would then do, before buying a motor, is to power it up in a safe place to make sure it doesn't go pop ......

Dave

[kato]

Hi,
I found a paper label today, it was located ontop of one of the capacitors



So it should be a vc130? And max 1,3kW?
/Jim

[DMIOM]

to be honest, I've never heard of a VC-130 - but yes, if its a VC-130 then 1.3kW looks right. Do you know anything of its provenance? It may be worth dropping IMO a line to ask - you never know, they may be forthcoming! and your detailed photos should help.

Good luck / Dave

[Denford Admin]

Hi,
I found a paper label today, it was located ontop of one of the capacitors

I think the 3 is a poorly written 5, especially when you look at the other written numbers.
It certainly looks to have the same functions, terminals, leds etc as the manual I posted except in a slightly different board layout (comparing it to the 1st picture you posted)
The other manuals I have found are for VN110 VN150...HVL02...LVL02..CD75 CD110 CD150... etc..

[DMIOM]

Jim,

yes, to be honest, I think Admin is right - the idea that it should say VC-150 instead of what looks like VC-130 did cross my mind and that was partly what I was hinting at in that I couldn't find reference to a VC-130 anywhere online either.

I would be pretty sure its a VC-150 ....

In case it helps, attached are a few pictures to match yours of the Denford-fitted VC-150 that was on my Senior 3C CNC mill (which I suspect is a slightly earlier edition of yours - my VC-150 is QC dated 1987 which ties in with my mill's 1987 date of manufacture).

cheers / Dave

IMO Jaguar Cub VC-150 VFD

IMO Cub VC-150 p1.jpg (142.27 KiB) Viewed 10990 times

IMO Jaguar Cub VC-150 VFD - model label on top of main phase capacitor

IMO Cub VC-150 p2.jpg (168.08 KiB) Viewed 10990 times

IMO Jaguar Cub VC-150 VFD - main PCB number

IMO Cub VC-150 p3.jpg (175.62 KiB) Viewed 10990 times

IMO Jaguar Cub VC-150 VFD - QC Inspector mark on main PCB

IMO Cub VC-150 p4.jpg (176.12 KiB) Viewed 10990 times

IMO Jaguar Cub VC-150 VFD - ser. no. on heatsink, under top of main PCB

IMO Cub VC-150 p5.jpg (95.33 KiB) Viewed 10990 times

IMO Jaguar Cub VC-150 VFD - braking resistor PCB no.

IMO Cub VC-150 p6.jpg (156.21 KiB) Viewed 10990 times

IMO Jaguar Cub VC-150 VFD - label inside cover

IMO Cub VC-150 p7.jpg (136.91 KiB) Viewed 10990 times

[kato]

Hi,

One word of caution if the inverter has been out of use for some time - old electrolytics can let go if they are powered up again after a long dormant spell - they can either just leak/ooze; or they can rupture in dramatic style. The new ABB inverter/VFD I fitted to my mill came with oodles of caution; even with brand-new units they say a special capacitor reforming procedure is needed if it hasn't been used within two years of manufacture.

I use it once a week so I hope it wont happen

On mine, the board with the output amps/KVA jumper is the daughter board onto which the optional braking resistor is connected (the big fast-on terminals), so I don't know if the jumper is just on there for convenience? or whether it relates to the brake? On the big photo you posted, and in the close-ups of yours, it looks as if the daughter board has been eliminated and its all one board?

No other board on min, looks just like the pictures

What I would do is carefully pull the jumper off. Have just done that on mine and there is a clear difference between the shiny pins where the jumper just came from, and the other slightly-tarnished ones. If you can see a clear differentiation, and you know the drive came from a previously-functioning piece of kit, then I would think it is likely to be a drive of the capacity as per the jumper.

What I would then do, before buying a motor, is to power it up in a safe place to make sure it doesn't go pop .....

Dont look as the jumpers have been on the other pins. My vfd came with my ORAC and I have used it for about 8years. Only bying a new motor because tho old are so extremely weak.

I think the 3 is a poorly written 5, especially when you look at the other written numbers.
It certainly looks to have the same functions, terminals, leds etc as the manual I posted except in a slightly different board layout (comparing it to the 1st picture you posted)
The other manuals I have found are for VN110 VN150...HVL02...LVL02..CD75 CD110 CD150... etc..
Jim,

yes, to be honest, I think Admin is right - the idea that it should say VC-150 instead of what looks like VC-130 did cross my mind and that was partly what I was hinting at in that I couldn't find reference to a VC-130 anywhere online either.

I would be pretty sure its a VC-150 ....

In case it helps, attached are a few pictures to match yours of the Denford-fitted VC-150 that was on my Senior 3C CNC mill (which I suspect is a slightly earlier edition of yours - my VC-150 is QC dated 1987 which ties in with my mill's 1987 date of manufacture).

If I by a new 1,5kW motor and plug it in and the vfd is not an vc-150. What can happen?

/Jim

[DMIOM]

hi Jim,

Firstly, I think the manual kindly posted by Denford Admin is unfortunately not fully relevant as its for a VC-150D not a VC-150 (maybe D stands for Digital?)

re the VC-150 / over-current - this is what I believe - but no guarantees!

The drive has an inherent inbuilt current limitation function, so if the load pulls more than the drive can give, it will trip-out. This will, I believe, do two things - firstly, it will open the fault relay, (which ought to be) in the machines E-stop circuit. Secondly, if you look at the PCB to the right of the top-most main phase capacitor, there are two red LEDs - one of which is over-current, so I would expect this to be illuminated. If, however, your Orac is wired in a similar fashion to my Senior 3C CNC milling machine, as soon as the E-stop loop is opened, the mains contactor opens, so in this case, all you would get is the VFD signalling the fault and immediately the E-stop will kill the power - so you might not even see the over-current LED illuminated.

Unfortunately I don't have any documentation for the VC-150 but I think that the power (current) setting jumpers work by imposing a lower 'target' current and modulating the PWM voltage accordingly. If you exceed this lower limit, I'm not sure if it just throttles-back or trips over-current or trips the fault relay.....

So, I think that the worst that would happen would be that the drive would fault-out and shut down.

and, since we now know it came withe the Orac, if you ask Denford (and gave them the serial no. of the machine) they may be able to confirm what VFD it was fitted with when manufactured.

Dave

[kato]

In case it helps, attached are a few pictures to match yours of the Denford-fitted VC-150 that was on my Senior 3C CNC mill (which I suspect is a slightly earlier edition of yours - my VC-150 is QC dated 1987 which ties in with my mill's 1987 date of manufacture).

But my lathe is dated 1985, so mine are older.



/Jim

[DMIOM]

...But my lathe is dated 1985, so mine are older. ....

The date written on the capacitor and PCB you photographed definitely looks like 90 as in 1990; and the issue number of the PCBs is higher (i.e. newer) than those on mine - which was definitely made in 1987.

So, I would suspect that the VFD is not the factory-fitted one - it has been changed at some point - and, looking at the data plate you've just posted, I am not certain if a VC-150 would have been over-kill for the original motor (doesn't mean it wasn't fitted, may have been commercially expedient at the time).

Anyway, all the above suggestions still stand

Dave