Novamill communication issue

All info relating to the Denford Novamill CNC Milling machines

Moderators: Martin, Steve, Mr Magoo

Post Reply
jgoodman
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue 09 Mar , 2021 22:24 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford Novamill/ VR Milling V5

Novamill communication issue

Post by jgoodman » Thu 11 Mar , 2021 20:42 pm

I am taking robotic integration this semester and am part of the team that is taking care of the cnc milling portion of the project. Right at the beginning of the semester our pc died and is not recoverable (looks like motherboard caps went out and it hurt more than just the motherboard). So now we are having to use one of the laptops in our lab as we do not have a spare pc. I will put several pictures up at the end to show everything we are currently using. Also this is my first time ever using the Denford Novamill and the VR Milling v5 software.

So as of right now we have purchased a new copy of the VR Milling v5 and have downloaded it on the laptop. We also ordered an adapter cable to go from usb to rs232 (this one to be exact: https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-DNCLINK- ... pc&sr=1-13). I have tried several different things on the laptop side; ftdi drivers, COM port settings, played with settings in the milling software. Still getting the usb/rs232 connection error when trying to establish connection to machine.

A change in pc is out of the question right now but change in cables is doable. Questions are welcome but I wont be able to check on much physically until Monday.

Any help is much appreciated,
jgoodman
Attachments
PIC1.jpg
PIC1.jpg (251.3 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC2.jpg
PIC2.jpg (165.3 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC3.jpg
PIC3.jpg (334.74 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC4.jpg
PIC4.jpg (260.87 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC5.jpg
PIC5.jpg (357.84 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC6.jpg
PIC6.jpg (225.92 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC7.jpg
PIC7.jpg (295.47 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC8.jpg
PIC8.jpg (254.06 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC9.jpg
PIC9.jpg (171.25 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC10.jpg
PIC10.jpg (294.16 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC11.jpg
PIC11.jpg (343.49 KiB) Viewed 9559 times
PIC12.jpg
PIC12.jpg (377.89 KiB) Viewed 9559 times

Martin
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1897
Joined: Fri 24 Feb , 2006 17:09 pm
Location: Brighouse

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by Martin » Thu 11 Mar , 2021 20:56 pm

What machine have you selected in VR Milling?

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by TDIPower » Thu 11 Mar , 2021 21:09 pm

A real quick one you could try is swap pin 2 and 3 over on the chassis mount rs232 on the cab.

I have over the years met many counts of RS232 issues which come back to an incorrect wiring. Now one would have thought that as the machine was working before and you are using the same lead it should be fine BUT it all depends upon how the USB to RS232 has been wired.

It would be worth trawling through the RS232 issues on here, looking at the chassis mount connector it looks like it has more that the TX/RX ground so will need the corresponding connections in the RS232 adapter or loop backs in the lead. You may find the USB adapter doesn't even connect to more than the TX/RX/ground as so much RS232 dropped all the RTS CTS and other connections.

There is a 'god lead' pin out somewhere which is 9pin to 9pin and goes direct to the board but you shouldn't need that as you had it all working with the lead you have.

So my bets are either pin 2/3 swap or you need an rs232/usb that uses all the connections.

DavidB
CNC Expert
CNC Expert
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue 19 Oct , 2010 16:06 pm
Hardware/Software: Triac, Orac

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by DavidB » Thu 11 Mar , 2021 21:32 pm

One thing that can cause comms issues with some software, I don't know if it effects Denford software, is the latency setting in the FTDI driver, it's likely in the advanced settings dialog on the driver page you posted earlier. I think in order to use the USB efficiently it waits in case more characters come along before sending them on the USB bus but with software I used to maintain it could lead to timeouts so the latency had to be set to the minimum in order to prevent that.

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by TDIPower » Fri 12 Mar , 2021 18:01 pm

There has been some posts in the past about usb/rs232 and issues over unreliable connection, i dont recall complete failure. I could well be wrong. I seem to recall some types work some dont and it being down to the chip used in the converter. Im going back about 5yrs on this now, i have used 2 with success in the past.

jgoodman
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue 09 Mar , 2021 22:24 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford Novamill/ VR Milling V5

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by jgoodman » Fri 12 Mar , 2021 19:11 pm

Martin wrote:
Thu 11 Mar , 2021 20:56 pm
What machine have you selected in VR Milling?
I have been going to the legacy machines and selecting Novamill as my machine.

I wont have access to the machine until 8am Monday but I definately want to give your ideas a try @TDIPower.

@DavidB like you said I have been messing with the latency settings a bit but I had no idea as to what I should set everything to. I don't remember if we tried going super low so I will also give this a try Monday before tampering with the pins.

Thanks for the suggestions hopefully I can get some progress made next week.

Martin
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1897
Joined: Fri 24 Feb , 2006 17:09 pm
Location: Brighouse

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by Martin » Fri 12 Mar , 2021 20:47 pm

If you look in the VRMilling directory on the computer you can try Mintfinder to see if that will connect.

jgoodman
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue 09 Mar , 2021 22:24 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford Novamill/ VR Milling V5

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by jgoodman » Tue 16 Mar , 2021 20:14 pm

Between yesterday and today I have tried most of the ideas posted here with little to no success. I tried changing the latency in the COM advanced settings and never came up with a good result. I switched pin 2/3 as TDIPower suggested and that was also a bust. When I booted up MintMan and tried to establish a connection it said "Comms not OK".

The only thing I haven't tried is a different cable so are there any usb/rs232 adapters approved by Denford that they know work or @TDIPower would it be able for me to get a usb/9pin serial and plug directly into the controller board.

DavidB
CNC Expert
CNC Expert
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue 19 Oct , 2010 16:06 pm
Hardware/Software: Triac, Orac

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by DavidB » Tue 16 Mar , 2021 20:39 pm

Is there a battery below the LED, it looks like there might be but the image doesn't have enough detail to be sure. Worth checking for any appearance of deposits on the PCB around the battery as they often leak electrolyte after a time and it typically effects the comms signals. Can you find one of these in the UK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DB25-Male-to ... 4346634474 . Do you have access to an oscilloscope? Was the Novamill attached to the PC when it died?

Might be worthwhile having a look at serial comms monitoring programs some mentioned here https://www.virtual-serial-port.org/art ... utilities/ . One USB RS232 converter I have had one with the installation and it was handy for debugging a particular nasty bug. I don't know where they hook the system so it would be handy to have a verification of signal activity on the lead.

This might be handy https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Serial-Loopb ... 3197010934 or you could make your own according to its details. It should enable you to see if data is being sent out and returned by using Hyperterm or similar terminal software to show the characters typed as they're sent out and back. If you try that links paper clip trick to bridge TX and RX make sure you're grounded to the chassis in case you're carrying a static charge as I knew someone that didn't and took out not just one serial port but the other and a number of other PC peripherals.

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by TDIPower » Wed 17 Mar , 2021 18:16 pm

I just dug out my 2 USB to RS232 devices and plugged them in to my desktop PC running win 10,
The 1st is a Prolific PL2303HXA which interestingly Win to reports in the comports as

PL2303HXA phased out since 2012 Please Contact your supplier

Now I was running this in windows XP when I used it in DOS box as the machine was a DOS based machine.

The other is reporting the same (I'm typing whilst testing)

These USB to RS232 adapters were both used on a Win XP laptop that did not have RS232 until I got a PC with 2 RS232 ports.

I use the onboard RS232 ports on a proper PC rather than USB to RS232 as they are still on motherboards you just need the breakout, but understand you only have access to a laptop.

It's that matter of you need to prove where the fault is. Getting hold of a PC with onboard RS232 would be the best way just to work out where the issue is.

Just a thought. I know I did not change from 9600 bits, 8 data bits, Parity none, Stop bits 1, flow control none, In advanced use FIFO 16550 was selected and the TX/RX buffers set to high 16/14. When I did this and those are the settings my USB adapters default to on plug in.

The direct 9pin to 9pin connections are (nc = not connected)
1 DCD nc 1 DCD
2 RD - 3 TD
3 TD - 2 RD
4 DTR - 6 DSR
5 GND - 5 GND
6 DSR - 4 DTR
7 RTS - 8 CTS
8 CTS - 7 RTS
9 RI nc 9 RI

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: Novamill communication issue

Post by TDIPower » Wed 17 Mar , 2021 18:20 pm

Those RS232 LED units are great, I got my Mum to send me mine over (I moved out years ago but knew it was still there) when I was sorting things out with another machine, I had one of the ones you use jumper cables to link the pins but that had vanished. Makes it a lot easier to ID and try things.

Pete

Post Reply