Denford Software & Machines

Hi can anybody help me with this keyboard problem?
I recently aquired a MIRAC PC in good condition but with the tutor keyboard not functioning in response to a few keys. Notably "N" and "cursor up". I have edited the MIRAC.GO file to use a qwerty keyboard in the normal 486 PC DIN keyboard port (using an old machine in true DOS) . I would prefer this anyway.
My problem is I cant find keys that map to "S" and "T" in the jog screen to set tool number or spindle speed. I also see that a qwerty keyboard is stated as needed to make some setting and config changes.
I can't find anything on the Denford web site that covers use of qwerty keys in detail only instructions on how to edit MIRAC.GO to use the keyboard instead of the membrane tutor pad.
Please can someone give me full qwerty key mapping?

I can't rememeber the actual mappings but some clues....

Use the ALT key for the mode key alt-h = home, alt-j = jog)

Try other values for the same keys on the tutor keypad. Eg. the tutor may have had Q, R, S, 0, on a single key. So if S doesn't work on the QWERTY try Q or R or 0

I'll try and dig out the key mapping file but can't guarantee anything....

I already know that alt-h and alt-j work. last night I stumbled across the > key on its own emulating T.
Your suggestion of possibly the alternates on the tutor keyboard single keys sounds good. I will try that when back with the machine tonight and report progress.
Thanks for the help so far. please keep looking for that mapping.
If I finally get it cracked I will up-load the answers.

Incedentally I tried calling

IBM.KBD 1
18.2

in the Mirac.go file. The software ran but only gave me cursor keys on the number pad (nothing else).

Hi Skipper...
Well I found the mapping files but have decided to let you do the donkey work

The software changes the key mapings based on where you are in the software. So take a look at the attached txt file and....

the "HotTranslation" section is active all the time, so for example
QWERTY Alt-A maps to Tutor AutoMode key
QWERTY F1 maps to Turor F1
QWERTY Alt-/ maps to Tutor BlockSkip
etc

the "CoolTranslation" section mappings depend on where you are in the software, so for example when there is a menu on the screen,
section = "key_menu" , and so...
QWERTY Keypad 9 maps to Tutror PgUp
QWERTY Keypad 3 maps to Tutror PgDn
etc

The only not-so-obvious Section name is that Jog Mode is section "key_control2". You'll see here things like....
Alt-C = coolant on
Ctrl-C = coolant off

I've also just noticed that when running a program ("key_execprogram") that the spacebar maps to Cycle Stop (I never knew that!)

Hope this helps...

.

If all else fails then maybe this Tutor for sale on Ebay might help???

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... PIC&ih=003



.

Hello All,

I have read the attached key mapping doc but am having trouble with starting the spindle on my Starturn.

Does anyone know what the qwerty key mapping is please?

Thanks,
SRG

Hi paragon,
If your Starturn control software is similar to my Mirac PC you can control the spindle from the querty key board like this:-

1. First home the machine (ALT H) followed by X and Z cursor keys on the numeric keybad i.e. the numeric keys 4,6, 8,or2.

2. Go to Jog mode (ALT j)

3. Set speed (-) This emulates the Denford Tutor keyboard (S-) key. and enter the speed. e.g. -1000 & ENTER

4. Then you have to enter an M code command e.g. M3 for clockwise, M4 for anticlockwise. or M5 for spindle stop. Note to get the M key you need to type (-) this emulates the denford Tutor (M-) key.
e.g. for clockwise rotation use -3 & ENTER.

You will now apreciate the reason for my original post question. Although my machine functions OK, I was contemplating converting it to run on Mach 3.
I have now started to do so. Apart from the better control facilities offered the pain of using the qwerty keyboard has really spurred me on to do this. I was planning to produce an excel key mapping table for the Mirac PC but having seen the file from Mr Magoo I conclude that it is not easy to lay one out to cater for the various modes.

Best of luck with searching the mapping.

Thanks for your reply skipper_steam!

I will give the M code a try later today.
I did try the M code methord ie 3 and 4 but I used the char 'M' and not '-' when entering the M-code ( I onder why)

As far as everything else is concerned I can set the spindle speed etc as you sugessted.

BTW Skipper_Steam have you looked into EMC2 as an alternative to Mach?
https://www.linuxcnc.org/

I am using EMC2 on my Denford Starmill conversion and it runs flawlesly.
Oh and it's free (open source)
They also have a LiveCD to try so no install is necessary.
There is an IRC chat room for live support also ( from the developpers themselves) this was a great help in setting up configs etc.
BTW I have no affilliation with EMC2 except of that been a very happy user.

Thanks Again,
SRG

Paragon,
Following your lead I’ve taken a look at the CNC2 documentation and downloaded the files to make a live CD that I’ll explore later. From a quick overview It looks good.
I have a few questions.

1. Will this system run entirely under run-time linux on a Windows XP PC, or do I ultimately need to install a Linux OS?
2. What version of Ubuntu do you use, 6.06 or 8.04 and why?
3. I assume I will still need to modify my Denford hardware by fitting new “step and direction” drivers, or do you know of a way of using the existing Denford slave board hardware (currenbtly commanded over RS232) but controlled by CNC2? Presumably micro-step would not be available though?

Regarding Mach 3. I already use this on a Wabeco Mill that I converted using drivers from Arc Euro Trade. https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors
(No connection for me with Arc Euro either just very satisfied with these low cost drivers). I was planning to use similar in the Mirac PC lathe, together with published circuitry for interfacing to spindle speed and direction.
I will now definitely consider CNC2 as an option as it looks like I can set it to use similar parallel port pins as my Mach 3 setup so could compare the two easily, depending on your answers.

Thanks for the lead.

Skipper_steam... So sorry for the delay in replying to your question... like two years late! But have only just this moment seen this reply while revisiting qdenford.kbd stuff.

You have probably solved the questions you posted by now but I stick this down just in case anyone else may find it useful.

But EMC2 runs entirely on a real-time Linux distro.
Currently there is a live cd available that can also install it to your hard drive if required.

I purchased some cheap bipolar micro stepper drivers and upgraded the steppers to nema 23 double stacked motors which allow for greater torque and speed.

EMC2 out of the box runs from the pc para port but there are drivers for various setups.
For example I was using the standard paraport set up for the three axis starmill but decided to upgrade it to use the Messa 7i43 fpga card this allows for more i/o's and also produces a much greater number and smoother pulses to the stepper drives.

I could also use the same card for servo based closed loop control if i wished too.

EMC2 now also includes ladder setup for tool changing etc but I have not had a great deal of use for this feature as yet.

My current setup is as follows:

Starmill converted to larger steppers with micro step controllers via EMC2 and Messa 7i43 FPGA I/O card with home made 4th Axis.
Starturn LSB with auto tool changer, standard setup, running FANUCSLD on the same Linux EMC2 PC via DOSBOX.

I'm a little loathed to retrofit the lathe partially due to the tool changer which I believe uses a grey code for indexing (not 100% sure about that though!)

You will probably be able to get away without modifying hardware and still use EMC2.
In fact this is how I ran the Starmill for sometime before upgrading the steppers.
The LSB Starmill set-up had three cards in the controller these cards used the L297 IC for Full Step / Half Step.
I basically used a logic probe on the card inputs to determine the step and direction pins.
Once this was established I then hooked to the step/dir pins to the relevant pins on the PC paraport determined by the EMC2 configuration file. ( hal.ini) and that was that. I then employed opto isolators to protect the PC port.

The only real reason for upgrading the motors and the controllers was due to the Nema 34 motor failing on the Z-axis. I replaced this with a Nema 23 (had one them at hand) and fabbed a support bracket from some box section to support it.

I was also told that Mach3 uses the underlying source code from rtai (realtime linux) and a lot of the original code that EMC1 was built with via NIST. EMC2 was completely redesigned and coded from the ground up which allows one to create complex logic structure's and internal wiring of the program. This adds a great deal of power to what EMC2 can achieve.

Just to point out it's called EMC2 not CNC2 but I am sure this was just a typo on your part

Kind Regards,
Paragon.