Testing without software?

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nattrassj12
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue 01 Sep , 2020 15:55 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford Micromill, Denford Microturn

Testing without software?

Post by nattrassj12 » Tue 01 Sep , 2020 15:59 pm

Hi all, I've recently acquired a micro mill and micro lathe

Before I start converting the machines, I was wonder if there's a possible way to test the functionality of the machines?

I'm not wanting to cut something up, literally just move all axis's and fire up the spindle? Even if it's for a brief second?

Thanks,

MadeForThat
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Hardware/Software: Micromill 2000:
Nextstep-4 axis
Novaturn ns:
denstep card (from swap)-atc

Re: Testing without software?

Post by MadeForThat » Tue 01 Sep , 2020 16:43 pm

Welcome! Depending on the controller you have, you may find it worthwhile to just buy the denford software, as it is quite good. If your controller is too old, you may be out of luck for that to be a reasonable option. If that is the case, you would likely want to strip out the old controller anyways. I will say this, there is almost nothing that could go wrong with the stepper motors that control the axis, and the same for the spindle motor. With that assumption, it is unnecessary to test them if you have to replace the controllers anyways. If your controller can run the more modern software that denford offers, then a test would probably be a good way to decide if you want to buy it. Not sure if denford offers a very limited demo of their software, seems like an easy way to convince a lot of guys like us to keep their controllers..... (HINT *DENFORD* HINT) For a bit of background I got a mill and a lathe from a surplus auction with the intention of retrofit, but a year later and they are running fine :) If you take off the back plates behind the machines, and take pictures of all the boards inside, then we can help you figure out what you have.

MadeForThat
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Hardware/Software: Micromill 2000:
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denstep card (from swap)-atc

Re: Testing without software?

Post by MadeForThat » Tue 01 Sep , 2020 16:49 pm

Also at the bottom of the page near where it says "post reply" there is a wrench, if you click that and hit the "subscribe topic" you will see when people respond to this post. The little check mark is misleading, you have to "uncheck" it to start receiving notifications. Lots of posters never realize that they have received a response because they aren't automatically subscribed.

nattrassj12
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue 01 Sep , 2020 15:55 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford Micromill, Denford Microturn

Re: Testing without software?

Post by nattrassj12 » Tue 01 Sep , 2020 20:25 pm

http://imgur.com/gallery/QJMOvWo

Added photos,
It came with no cables, can I use a standard or do I need to make a special one?
I've got a fairly new pc, should I get a PCI to serial or a usb to serial?

MadeForThat
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Posts: 91
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: Micromill 2000:
Nextstep-4 axis
Novaturn ns:
denstep card (from swap)-atc

Re: Testing without software?

Post by MadeForThat » Tue 01 Sep , 2020 21:29 pm

I can get some links tommorow, but I have had a lot of luck with a serial to USB converter, but I have the original cables to connect to that. It is called the terra grand premium usb 2.0 to rs232, got mine on amazon. There is a diagram of the connections in the cables on this forum here somewhere, I had to rewire one of mine because the db9/rs232 connector was run over by a trailer.... Not sure who let that happen....I can tell you it isn't a standard db9-db25 connection.

The controllers you have are denstep, with beta eeprom chips. The beta eeprom chip means it is capable of supporting the newer software that denford has come out with, for both the mill and lathe. Without seeing the years these were sold I would guess 99-03 just based on the fact that my micromill had the same controller and chips. You probably have a sticker on the side that's says the date they were made.

nattrassj12
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue 01 Sep , 2020 15:55 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford Micromill, Denford Microturn

Re: Testing without software?

Post by nattrassj12 » Tue 01 Sep , 2020 21:59 pm

Thanks for the reply, seems they aren't in stock around the UK,

I was told that serial device looking thing is the licence for the software? Is that true? Will I need another for the lathe or can I just survive on one?

They are February 2002 if I remember correctly, I'd really appreciate some available links if possible.

I'd like to keep them standard if possible but it depends on what I can get away with software wise.. as these machines came terribly cheap

nattrassj12
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue 01 Sep , 2020 15:55 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford Micromill, Denford Microturn

Re: Testing without software?

Post by nattrassj12 » Wed 02 Sep , 2020 20:41 pm

I've managed to dig out a machine with a serial port and given my serial dongle a try, I haven't managed to get anywhere..

This is a February 2002 machine, is there any drivers or any way I can check the serial adaptors? It seems it's connecting to the machine but I have checked device manager and see nothing there.. should anything be visible?

Do I need to plug in a device behind it to power it?

DavidB
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Re: Testing without software?

Post by DavidB » Wed 02 Sep , 2020 22:45 pm

I think the dongle is more likely to be a parallel port dongle as in over 20 years of working with software I have never seen a serial port dongle, only parallel and USB. The confusion may be that some serial ports use a 25 way D connector but they'll be male pins on the PC, the 25 way D for the parallel port is female on the PC. Does your dongle have pins on the 'computer' end if so it's parallel port. A driver is almost certain to be needed for the software to communicate with the dongle as all NT based MS OS trapped direct access to the low level hardware, programs talking directly to the serial, parallel, and other hardware was only possible back in 16bit OS days.

nattrassj12
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue 01 Sep , 2020 15:55 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford Micromill, Denford Microturn

Re: Testing without software?

Post by nattrassj12 » Wed 02 Sep , 2020 23:19 pm

You are correct, I keep getting them two mixed up all the time :)

It is one that said computer, I got in contact with denford and didn't really get very far, they won't reissue the licence as I'm not the original owner, even if I do have the dongle.

I'm waiting on a usb to parrallel port coming tomorrow, that'll be my last resort then after this it'll be retrofitting the lathe and the mill to get them working!

Before I do try that, I've been told the dos application is free? Which one do I need to download for the machines? I saw a micro lathe program but not a microrouter.

Thanks!

Martin
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Re: Testing without software?

Post by Martin » Thu 03 Sep , 2020 9:03 am

The Dos software needs a different eprom to the VR software.

What eprom version do you have & if it is Dos then what is the serial number of the machine?

nattrassj12
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue 01 Sep , 2020 15:55 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford Micromill, Denford Microturn

Re: Testing without software?

Post by nattrassj12 » Thu 03 Sep , 2020 9:14 am

Hi Martin,

I went back for fourth with Steve last night, it seems my parallel port licence wouldn't be used on the v2/v5 software, although he did confirm that my board is suitable to run up to v5. (photos are in a link a few posts up)

Sadly he informed me that it would of probably been a flash code provided and not a dongle meaning that I sadly can't use the software without purchasing it. I've got a parallel to usb coming today just so I can give it the once over before seeing what is next.

The Serial is 1102641
Software version V2.13

If it helps theres the sn : 3D19 on the back of the dongle

TDIPower
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Re: Testing without software?

Post by TDIPower » Fri 04 Sep , 2020 20:35 pm

Picked up on this from your other post.

Martin has been the guy at Denford that I have known as 'the man' for the 19/20yrs Ive been using their machines at work. Came out to fix them a couple of times back in the day.

I'm not a 100% but I think the Beta eprom should run VR2 or VR5 (not sure on the VR turning software as I am very new to it), the machines are great with the control that are fitted with and the software is written for use in schools/education so quite easy to get to grips with. I would say, the VR 5 has the ability to post process DXF files built in which is quite handy. If you are doing design work you will need to be able to post process your designs, I do know people have done postprocessors for use within fusion 360.

If you do look to gutting the control and plan to keep the steppers/spindle then it is worth keeping the drive board and just replace the top board (there are threads on this possibly in the novamill section as most milss/routers use the came control boards). I have not done this and from looking at what people have spent doing so it is just as cheep to buy the software from denford.

I'm not familiar with the micro lathe do you mean the microturn? is it the same control boards as the mill? Looking at the pic on here it almost looks like they just laid the mill on its side in the cab. My experience is only really with the Micro range of mills and routers. I do have an old DOS Starturn 5 lathe which is pending and upgrade to the same spec as the novaturn, I splashed out on the software before i was even able to get control boards rather than trying to Mach3.

The VR milling will run a lot of the denford mill/routers
I have just checked my version of the current VR Turning and it lists the Microturn and microturn NS within the options.

Hope that helps

Pete

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