Hi Guys..
It's a while since I logged onto the forum but just stumbled across this post.
I think when you say Thyristor you mean Thermistor.
On some of the early machines we used to take the turret motor thermistor into a voltage sensing relay that would trigger the O/Heat alarm, on later machines the turret control board would handle this.
Do you have a Voltage Sensing Relay inthe back with an adjustable knob on the top? if so it could be as simple as a tweak to set the sensing voltage a bit higher (or lower ?)
Cyclone "Bad day"
Moderators: Martin, Steve, Mr Magoo
Update:
Checked main 3 phase 415v power supply on the wall and remade the connections to the Cyclone.
Turned power supply box on, made checks around the 24v dv board.
Turned Cyclone on, so far so good.
Moved turret towards chuck manually, Turret overheat alarm came on.
Cancelled this, moved turret away from chuck, ok. Next, moved z axis manually, still ok. Next, homed machine, all ok.
Manually rotated turret 6 cycles, 1,2,3 etc, then did 6,5,4 etc, all ok, no problems.
Called up programme, put to auto, and it ran ok on the first stage of the job. Opened door, reversed job in the chuck, cancelled door alarm, off she ran, no problem.
In fact, she did 28 "jobs" without fault. Grrrr !!!!
Observations this time:
The "Black thing" was showing its red neon all the time the machine was running, and the "Black thing" beside it also had a red neon on this time, unlike other times.
It certainly baffles me !
Bob
Checked main 3 phase 415v power supply on the wall and remade the connections to the Cyclone.
Turned power supply box on, made checks around the 24v dv board.
Turned Cyclone on, so far so good.
Moved turret towards chuck manually, Turret overheat alarm came on.
Cancelled this, moved turret away from chuck, ok. Next, moved z axis manually, still ok. Next, homed machine, all ok.
Manually rotated turret 6 cycles, 1,2,3 etc, then did 6,5,4 etc, all ok, no problems.
Called up programme, put to auto, and it ran ok on the first stage of the job. Opened door, reversed job in the chuck, cancelled door alarm, off she ran, no problem.
In fact, she did 28 "jobs" without fault. Grrrr !!!!
Observations this time:
The "Black thing" was showing its red neon all the time the machine was running, and the "Black thing" beside it also had a red neon on this time, unlike other times.
It certainly baffles me !
Bob
- Attachments
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- The "Black thing"
- 17032009(002) (WinCE).jpg (16.98 KiB) Viewed 7741 times
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- Black thing and its mate?
- 17032009(006) (WinCE).jpg (6.74 KiB) Viewed 7741 times
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- Turret Board
- 17032009(001) (WinCE).jpg (18.85 KiB) Viewed 7741 times
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- Unknown parts, but they have dials near to them
- 17032009(007) (WinCE).jpg (21.74 KiB) Viewed 7741 times
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This problem is certainly confusing now and think we need to get hold of the drawings and possibly PMC Ladder diagram that came with the machine... can you find and scan these in ?
We might have a file here if you know where it was originally supplied and its serial number ?
My guess is that something is causing a volt drop or spike, which is falsely seen as toolpost thermal... it could be the axis lube pump (if thats what it is) coming on thats causing a glitch, then the toolpost control card already thinks there is an error.
Is this machine running off a 240-415 3ph inverter ?
Can you monitor the 24VDC whilst running the machine (preferably have a look with a scope) ?
We might have a file here if you know where it was originally supplied and its serial number ?
My guess is that something is causing a volt drop or spike, which is falsely seen as toolpost thermal... it could be the axis lube pump (if thats what it is) coming on thats causing a glitch, then the toolpost control card already thinks there is an error.
Is this machine running off a 240-415 3ph inverter ?
Can you monitor the 24VDC whilst running the machine (preferably have a look with a scope) ?
Update:
Powered cyclone up, moved z and x away from previous finish points in preperation to home the machine. Moved x back a small amount, Turret alarm came on despite no turret movement so far. Cleared alarm, homed machine, ran ok on first cycle, second cycle, turret alarm, third cycle ok.
Job change, so reprogrammed machine to accept slightly longer job, but almost the same cycle as before. Ran ok all the time on single block setup and first 3 full auto cycles, alarmed out on the fourth, turret overheat alarm. This time, it was not possible to cancel it, even after 10 minutes wait. I did notice that the ALR and COR LED's were NOT on when in alarm state. Gave up and went home !
I do not know the original purchaser, rumoured to be the designer of Hozelock fittings, but only hearsay. I check each manual I have to see if any clues of owner. I do not have any drawings. Nor the "PMC Ladder" to my knowledge, plenty of manuals though. Would this ladder be some sort of print out?
Machine runs on proper 3 phase, no neutral, not an inverter.
I thought about the spike idea, hence the rewiring of the plug that connects the machine to the 3 phase.
Forgot to look at wire numbers on ALR, sorry, will do this tomorrow.
I will need a pal to monitor the 24v dc with a scope, will try to arrange this. I cant help thinking it is that 24v board, it was the start of the first of my problems, but I am no electrician.
I am very grateful for the advice offered here.
Bob
Powered cyclone up, moved z and x away from previous finish points in preperation to home the machine. Moved x back a small amount, Turret alarm came on despite no turret movement so far. Cleared alarm, homed machine, ran ok on first cycle, second cycle, turret alarm, third cycle ok.
Job change, so reprogrammed machine to accept slightly longer job, but almost the same cycle as before. Ran ok all the time on single block setup and first 3 full auto cycles, alarmed out on the fourth, turret overheat alarm. This time, it was not possible to cancel it, even after 10 minutes wait. I did notice that the ALR and COR LED's were NOT on when in alarm state. Gave up and went home !
I do not know the original purchaser, rumoured to be the designer of Hozelock fittings, but only hearsay. I check each manual I have to see if any clues of owner. I do not have any drawings. Nor the "PMC Ladder" to my knowledge, plenty of manuals though. Would this ladder be some sort of print out?
Machine runs on proper 3 phase, no neutral, not an inverter.
I thought about the spike idea, hence the rewiring of the plug that connects the machine to the 3 phase.
Forgot to look at wire numbers on ALR, sorry, will do this tomorrow.
I will need a pal to monitor the 24v dc with a scope, will try to arrange this. I cant help thinking it is that 24v board, it was the start of the first of my problems, but I am no electrician.
I am very grateful for the advice offered here.
Bob
This sounds like it could be a lose / broken wire in the umbilical between the crossslide and the machine body. Have you tried giving the ublilical betwene the two a good old wiggle to see if the alarm comes and goes.
Also, I think there is a 24 pin connector somewhere between the turret and the electrical cabinet too (inside the headstock perhaps - my memory is fading with these machines now!). We often had a few problems with these and needed to clean / re-seat the pins to make a good conection.
Also, I think there is a 24 pin connector somewhere between the turret and the electrical cabinet too (inside the headstock perhaps - my memory is fading with these machines now!). We often had a few problems with these and needed to clean / re-seat the pins to make a good conection.
Serial Number CYO 3118 B
Date 23/1/89
PLC 2.036I ( the zero has a / across it )
Further investigations have revealed confusion of the original ownership of the machine, but it is now semi confirmed that it was bought new by Harlow College, or as known in those days, Harlow Technical college.
Apparently there was an occasion when the machine engineers were called to site to resolve a problem that had been discovered with a programming issue, something discovered during a very advanced student inputting a complicated code? The issue was a "Glitch" in the system, so the story goes.
Date 23/1/89
PLC 2.036I ( the zero has a / across it )
Further investigations have revealed confusion of the original ownership of the machine, but it is now semi confirmed that it was bought new by Harlow College, or as known in those days, Harlow Technical college.
Apparently there was an occasion when the machine engineers were called to site to resolve a problem that had been discovered with a programming issue, something discovered during a very advanced student inputting a complicated code? The issue was a "Glitch" in the system, so the story goes.
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Lone_Ranger
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BobEmimec wrote:Forgot to mention, all concerned at the college tell me the ladder and drawings were with the machine, but would have been "skipped" by now
I don` think there is actually anything wrong with your machine other than possible bad connections somewhere which can be the absolute worst thing in the world to track down, these machines definitely don`t like standing around for long periods, if not used switches, connections etc can easily build up "stuff" on them that can cause an intermittent fault.
Might be worth taking the 24V PSU out and resoldering the connections and any others you reckon might be suspect!!
If needed the "ladders" can be accessed in the control with the right Parameter being set so they can be seen on the screen!
I`m pretty sure that they are not able to be edited in the control in Fanuc OT, seem to have read somewhere they are "burned" onto the EPROMS!
One of the manuals that were delivered with the machine would have all the drawings and the ladders as well, I have all that for mine!!
Really not something I would want to be playing with for sure!!
Regards
Rob
Hi Rob/All
I am inclined to agree, the way the problem comes and goes it does point to a bad connection.
I grabbed and shook all of the cables coming from the turret tonight. The lowest one, connected to the red cap on the turret, did throw up another alarm, forget exactly what it was, x axis something, I think. I should say I was already in turret alarm overheat state.
I removed the cable, noticing the screw cap was not that tight. Closer inspection revealed a lot of blue tape under the rubber cable hood on the plug. I removed this, and could see the cable braiding where it enters the plug. Blew plug out, reconnected tight this time.. This cable/plug trails very close to the base of the machine when the x axis moves. Also noticed the plug at the very top of the cross slide only just misses the cross slide when it returns to full height, this is on the chuck side of the machine, inside the work area.
Anyway, ran a cyle with a job in the chuck, all ok, carried on and did another 16 jobs/cycles with no problem.
I have been advised to get some Servisol 10 and spray all connections? any thoughts on this?
Thanks
Bob
I am inclined to agree, the way the problem comes and goes it does point to a bad connection.
I grabbed and shook all of the cables coming from the turret tonight. The lowest one, connected to the red cap on the turret, did throw up another alarm, forget exactly what it was, x axis something, I think. I should say I was already in turret alarm overheat state.
I removed the cable, noticing the screw cap was not that tight. Closer inspection revealed a lot of blue tape under the rubber cable hood on the plug. I removed this, and could see the cable braiding where it enters the plug. Blew plug out, reconnected tight this time.. This cable/plug trails very close to the base of the machine when the x axis moves. Also noticed the plug at the very top of the cross slide only just misses the cross slide when it returns to full height, this is on the chuck side of the machine, inside the work area.
Anyway, ran a cyle with a job in the chuck, all ok, carried on and did another 16 jobs/cycles with no problem.
I have been advised to get some Servisol 10 and spray all connections? any thoughts on this?
Thanks
Bob
Update:
Ran all ok on Saturday, no alarms.
May be a fluke, or just tightening the large knurled nut on the umbilical cord cable that joins the toolchanger to the machine rear panel cured it. Who knows !!!
Until next time, a big thank you again to all who offered so much very helpful advice
Regards
Bob
Ran all ok on Saturday, no alarms.
May be a fluke, or just tightening the large knurled nut on the umbilical cord cable that joins the toolchanger to the machine rear panel cured it. Who knows !!!
Until next time, a big thank you again to all who offered so much very helpful advice
Regards
Bob
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