Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

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dazz
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Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Fri 09 Dec , 2011 11:31 am

Hello

For quite a while I have been working on a VSD conversion for my lathe. This consists of replacing the motor and pulley set with a 3phase motor driven by an electronic variable speed drive.

First I converted the motor. This required replacing the shaft driven cooling fan with a motor driven fan. The heat produced by a motor with VSD is the same regardless of speed. A shaft driven fan is too slow at slow speeds and soaks up a lot of power at high speeds.

I used a recycled centrifugal computer fan. This required covers to direct the air and a diffuser to prevent overloading the fan motor.

I made a hand rest to turn the wooden former and to spin the metal.

Dazz
Attachments
Picture 002.jpg
The standard motor and pulley set. Note that the standard belt driven Denford coolant pump has been replaced with a windscreen washer pump.
Picture 002.jpg (107.16 KiB) Viewed 14562 times
IMG_0281 (768 x 576).jpg
I made a wooden form in order to metal spin the covers.
IMG_0281 (768 x 576).jpg (135.77 KiB) Viewed 14562 times
IMG_0284 (768 x 576).jpg
I spun the covers on the Denford
IMG_0284 (768 x 576).jpg (121.1 KiB) Viewed 14562 times
IMG_0728. smlJPG.jpg
Underneath the spun cover is a recycled computer fan with a copper sheet diffuser.
IMG_0728. smlJPG.jpg (88.84 KiB) Viewed 14562 times
IMG_0732 sml.jpg
The finished motor ready for a VSD. All of the modifications are reversible. The standard fan can be restored. The air intake venturi is made from a piece of 220kV cable. The copper core was removed and the insulation turned to provide a smooth air intake.
IMG_0732 sml.jpg (60.76 KiB) Viewed 14562 times
Last edited by dazz on Sat 10 Dec , 2011 0:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
Regards

Dazz

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Fri 09 Dec , 2011 11:40 am

Hello

The next major part was to make the new pulleys. I an replacing the Vee pulley with a poly-vee pulley that fits on my car. Automotive belts are substantially cheaper than industrial belts.

I made both the pulley and a new jack shaft.
Dazz
Attachments
IMG_1840 (648 x 486).jpg
The finished jack pulley. A Vee and poly-Vee
IMG_1840 (648 x 486).jpg (37.51 KiB) Viewed 14561 times
IMG_1842 (648 x 486).jpg
The finished jack pulley.
IMG_1842 (648 x 486).jpg (37.96 KiB) Viewed 14561 times
Regards

Dazz

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Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by Denford Admin » Fri 09 Dec , 2011 17:24 pm

Nice work :D

I've always wondered about metal spinning and never seen the process in real life.

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Fri 09 Dec , 2011 21:36 pm

Hi

Metal spinning is not as easy as it looks on YouTube.

Aluminium for spinning must be one of the soft grades (100% Al is good). A random piece out of the scrap bin is unlikely to work.

Aim for a bell-shape during the spinning. The edge needs a curve to stop wrinkling. The photo above shows the edge curved back to the right. This is bad and difficult to recover from.

The spinning tool must be applied from right to left to draw the metal down over the form. Equally the tool needs to be applied from left to right to prevent the metal from thinning out to nothing.

Practice a lot.



Dazz
Regards

Dazz

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Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by Pete. » Mon 19 Dec , 2011 17:37 pm

Nice work Daz.

I have to ask - how do you take such nice photos of shiny pulleys. Whenever I photograph shiny parts I can never find an angle that doesn't leave either shadows or bright areas.

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Tue 20 Dec , 2011 6:21 am

Pete. wrote:Nice work Daz.

I have to ask - how do you take such nice photos of shiny pulleys. Whenever I photograph shiny parts I can never find an angle that doesn't leave either shadows or bright areas.
Hi

The top photos were just snapped with a flash. Nothing special.
The ones with the white background used a light source that is very diffuse. Note no hard shadows. The shot is overexposed by 1 stop.

Dazz
Regards

Dazz

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Sun 02 Sep , 2012 11:40 am

Hi

Another step closer to completing a VSD conversion.
These are photos of the motor pulley.

The motor is 1.1kW which means that it will be able to produce at least as much torque over the speed range as the standard motor.
VSDs provide constant torque regardless of speed.

This pulley is attached to the shaft with a taper lock bush.

The next step is to finish the new motor mounting arrangement. The standard one is too wobbly.
I will be replacing the cast base and motor mount with a fabricated welded base frame and motor mount.
Attachments
IMG_2162.JPG
The motor pulley
IMG_2162.JPG (62.86 KiB) Viewed 14063 times
Regards

Dazz

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Wed 02 Jan , 2013 8:40 am

Hi

The next stage is the replacement motor mounting arrangement. The factory mount is too floppy to use with poly-Vee belts. They need the pulleys to be accurately aligned. The new mount is a bolt in replacement for the factory items.

The mount was fabricated from rectangular steel tube. It is much stronger than it needs to be but I just made use of materials on hand.

The hinged motor mount is designed to allow the motor to be extracted while still bolted down to the mounting plate.

The yellow items are nylon bushings intended to provide a firm fitting hinge that won't rattle. The hinge pins are supported at one end so that the motor mount plate can be slid off. A bolt on the end of one hinge pin stops the motor mount plate sliding off by its self.

Two height adjusters are included for extra rigidity but only one is needed.

I need to paint it while I prepare the VSD and related items for installation. I plan to fit a digital tachometer and load meter.

Dazz
Attachments
IMG_2361 (600 x 450).jpg
The new motor mount
IMG_2361 (600 x 450).jpg (58.51 KiB) Viewed 13812 times
IMG_2355 (600 x 450).jpg
The new motor mount
IMG_2355 (600 x 450).jpg (53.69 KiB) Viewed 13812 times
Regards

Dazz

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Sun 03 Feb , 2013 10:00 am

Hello

The next stage was to fit the motor and new mount. With this done, I made up a temporary control box to test what I can do with the VSD and how I would use it.
See the video Youtube demonstration of Viceroy TDS with VSD

I now have to design and build a proper control system. This will include a tachometer and a electrical load (current) meter.

Dazz
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Dazz

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Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by Denford Admin » Mon 04 Feb , 2013 9:51 am

Great work as usual dazz!
What is the drive you've used ?

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Tue 05 Feb , 2013 7:25 am

Hi

It's an ABB industrial VSD unit connected to an ABB 1.1kW motor.
I have machined a couple of items and I have already noticed an improvement in finish.
With the old V belt, the cabinet used to rumble and the lathe vibrated. It's dead smooth now.


Dazz
Regards

Dazz

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Wed 06 Feb , 2013 5:21 am

Hi

The photos show a sample of the finish achieved on my next project.
This is a manky old piece of hot rolled mild steel.
With HSS, the finish is like sandpaper on this metal.
With cermet tooling and smooth VSD, the finish is what you see.

Note the reflections of the tool on the workpiece. Not too far from a mirror finish.

Dazz
Attachments
IMG_2415sml.jpg
IMG_2415sml.jpg (210.82 KiB) Viewed 13697 times
IMG_2414sml.jpg
A sample of the finish achieved.
IMG_2414sml.jpg (167.58 KiB) Viewed 13697 times
Regards

Dazz

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Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by Denford Admin » Wed 06 Feb , 2013 9:48 am

Really nice Dazz.
Can someone remind me why we don't make these machines any more :?

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Thu 09 Apr , 2015 9:23 am

Hello

After starting over 4 years ago, I have finally completed the VSD conversion on my Denford Viceroy.
Youtube Video of Denford Viceroy fitted with VSD and new controls
Attachments
IMG_4698 (450 x 600).jpg
The refurbished control panel was recycled for the conversion.
IMG_4698 (450 x 600).jpg (35.88 KiB) Viewed 11219 times
IMG_4697 (600 x 450).jpg
The Denford electrical control system was completely replaced.
IMG_4697 (600 x 450).jpg (73.4 KiB) Viewed 11219 times
Last edited by dazz on Thu 09 Apr , 2015 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards

Dazz

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Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by bradders » Thu 09 Apr , 2015 9:30 am

Excellent work Dazz, hope it gives you years of problem free running. Whats your next project ?

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Thu 09 Apr , 2015 10:57 am

Hello

I am converting my other lathe to VSD and have fitted a 3 phase/4kW/ 220VAC motor.
It's only taken a year so far.
There is no Nardini forum on the web so I won't be posting progress on this anywhere.

I made a poly-vee pulley on the Viceroy
Attachments
IMG_3856 (600 x 450).jpg
A Brazilian made lathe designed by Engineers who fled from Germany after the war.
IMG_3856 (600 x 450).jpg (63.87 KiB) Viewed 11219 times
IMG_4397 (600 x 450).jpg
The pulley had a tapered and keyed bore. I had no choice but to make it.
IMG_4397 (600 x 450).jpg (59.31 KiB) Viewed 11219 times
IMG_4590 (600 x 450).jpg
The poly-vee pulley ready to fit to the lathe.
IMG_4590 (600 x 450).jpg (34.79 KiB) Viewed 11219 times
Regards

Dazz

YouraT
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Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by YouraT » Thu 09 Apr , 2015 22:00 pm

Dazz,

Really nice control panel on your 3ph conversion - I assume that's a special you made.

Curious about one thing - you say you have full torque at low speed - are you using a particular VFD with vector control to do this, or just a 'normal' 3ph convertor? What model have you used?

Thanks,

Youra.

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Fri 10 Apr , 2015 4:02 am

Hello

The control panel was something I designed and made specifically for the Viceroy.

I am using an ABB ACS50 drive. This is a small industrial unit, as opposed to the cheap economy (hobbyist) units.
The ABB motor is also an industrial grade. Unfortunately this grade of equipment is expensive.
I was lucky because I got the motor new and unused for free and the drive at a significant discount.


Attached a motor loadability curve for a Teco motor I am using but the curves are much the same for all brands.
Basically it shows that the motor can produce 100% constant torque from zero to 50/60Hz with a electric forced fan cooling.

With shaft driven fan cooling, torque falls away at low speed to account for decreased cooling. This may be responsible for the myth that AC motors are incapable of providing full torque at low rpm. The graph shows that the motor can deliver ~280% torque at zero frequency, but only for a short time to avoid melting the windings.

Above rated frequency, power is held constant which means torque falls away in an inverse relationship to frequency.
A good quality drive will take full advantage of the motor capabilities.
Attachments
TECO Motor Freq chart-5.pdf
(374.36 KiB) Downloaded 723 times
Regards

Dazz

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Fri 10 Apr , 2015 4:52 am

Hello

Here is a drawing of the driver and intermediate pulleys I made for the Viceroy VSD conversion.
Note that the threaded half holes for the taper lock bush are not shown.
Attachments
Driven Intermediate Lathe Pulley.pdf
(16.29 KiB) Downloaded 547 times
Driver Lathe Pulley.pdf
(9.19 KiB) Downloaded 465 times
Last edited by dazz on Sat 11 Apr , 2015 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards

Dazz

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dazz
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Posts: 237
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: Denford Viceroy TDS VSD conversion

Post by dazz » Fri 10 Apr , 2015 4:58 am

Hello

Here is a close up of the upper control panel.

I made a cardboard mock-up to test appearance and ergonomics.

The panel was mounted on a stand over the hole for lamp.
All of the cabling goes down through the inside of the headstock.

All of the VSD controls a fully remoted so there is no need to access the VSD.
That is mounted above the motor inside the cabinet.

Apart from the upper control panel, there is no external indication that a VSD is fitted.
I have tried to make it look like it could have been factory fitted.
Attachments
IMG_4644 (600 x 450).jpg
IMG_4644 (600 x 450).jpg (32.61 KiB) Viewed 11209 times
IMG_4647 (450 x 600).jpg
IMG_4647 (450 x 600).jpg (60.7 KiB) Viewed 11209 times
IMG_4722 (600 x 450).jpg
IMG_4722 (600 x 450).jpg (40.19 KiB) Viewed 11209 times
Regards

Dazz

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