"downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Information and questions about Denford CNC Control electronics, general electrical issues, cables, diagrams, stepper motors, drives etc...

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MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
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Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

"downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Wed 11 Sep , 2019 17:02 pm

Without going in to the details of why, I am downgrading my novaturn ns from a Nextmove card, to a Denstep card. Will the DS Card control the lathe the same way as the NS? Will I need to specify the machine is a novaturn (no ns) to vr turning? Were the original (non ns) novaturns set up the same way with the same hardware, but with a denstep? I am just concerned about spindle and ATC controls functioning. Please let me know if you have any experience with a (non ns) novaturn, or if you are aware of any hardware changes.

TDIPower
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Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by TDIPower » Wed 11 Sep , 2019 20:14 pm

If you go into the machine setup (denny) you can look at the parameters but i'm not sure if there is more to it than that.

Pete

Martin
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Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by Martin » Thu 12 Sep , 2019 12:32 pm

The only issue may be the speed & feed override pots. There is a change from 5 volts to 12 volts. If it's fitted with the pots & it is connected to the wrong voltage the effective sweep of the pot is reduced.

Everything else should stay the same.

MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Thu 12 Sep , 2019 16:07 pm

Are the NS pots 12v? I would be concerned feeding 12v on the controller that expects 5v. Are the pots hooked to the controller or the spindle drivers? I assume feed is hooked to the controller, but speed I suppose could be wired either way

MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Thu 12 Sep , 2019 17:07 pm

Im concerned about this too: the novaturn says the control voltage is 24v, the micromill says 12v. I attached some pics of the serial plates that say this. and a pic of my dog
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novaturn.jpg
novaturn.jpg (271.58 KiB) Viewed 82 times
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IMG_20190517_000847.jpg (465.89 KiB) Viewed 82 times
IMG_20190519_182341(1).jpg
IMG_20190519_182341(1).jpg (365.23 KiB) Viewed 82 times
mill1.jpg
mill1.jpg (200.98 KiB) Viewed 82 times
IMG_20190606_220945.jpg
IMG_20190606_220945.jpg (297.02 KiB) Viewed 82 times

MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Mon 16 Sep , 2019 18:54 pm

In case anyone ever reads this and needs to know:
The pots for overriding speed and feed are both hooked to the controller board. This is for the Novaturn NS as well as the micromill 2000. I plan to update this thread with details of the switch once I have them. Something as simple as swapping cards can take a while if you want to make sure it works before you start ;)

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by TDIPower » Mon 16 Sep , 2019 21:00 pm

Glad your making progress, love that bench!

Pete

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by TDIPower » Mon 16 Sep , 2019 21:00 pm

Glad your making progress, love that bench!

Pete

MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Mon 16 Sep , 2019 21:50 pm

Thanks Pete!
I have made some updates since then, namely to the PC. in attempts to modernize haha. I was able to find an old monitor arm for a crt, so i am mounting all my peripherals on that. It allows me to pull the monitor, keyboard, and mouse right up to the machine Im using! Im pretty excited about the arm. You will notice I am starting to get the nice oil stain started on the benchtop. So it begins!
Attachments
IMG_20190818_142751.jpg
IMG_20190818_142751.jpg (356.52 KiB) Viewed 72 times
IMG_20190818_142810.jpg
IMG_20190818_142810.jpg (365.9 KiB) Viewed 72 times
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IMG_20190818_142840.jpg (318.26 KiB) Viewed 72 times
IMG_20190818_142846.jpg
IMG_20190818_142846.jpg (261.22 KiB) Viewed 72 times
IMG_20190818_142859.jpg
IMG_20190818_142859.jpg (333.61 KiB) Viewed 72 times

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by TDIPower » Tue 17 Sep , 2019 20:15 pm

We used to have an arm almost identical to that back in the early 90s it was between me and another guy at work but we had the phone on it!

I have become a huge fan of danish oil on wood, couple of coats with a roller and a wipe down :) I needed to do a quick shelf and couldn't wait for paint to dry!

A while ago someone was posting about using USB number pads, it meant you didn't need the whole keyboard at the machine when setting zero,

Pete

MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Wed 18 Sep , 2019 15:38 pm

I have not used Danish oil, from what i have read, it sounds like it dries to a hard finish? that sounds pretty nice for a work bench. I have been trying to decide if i can trust wireless devices for controlling, I would love to use a wireless mouse and numpad like you mentioned, but I'm just terrified of the possibility of a signal not making it when I need it to. Maybe that is unwarranted

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by TDIPower » Wed 18 Sep , 2019 19:48 pm

if using the same PC to control either machine there is no reason why you can't have a USB number pad and mouse at each machine and plugged in to the PC. I have a normal keyboard and wired mouse at the PC, a number pad at the machine (which has a USB hub so can plug a USB drive in easier than reaching the PC) and wireless mouse (logitech). The wired mouse is for when I have forgot to charge the wireless!

MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Wed 18 Sep , 2019 22:17 pm

good call on just having separate mouse and key pads... I would be able to get rid of most of the arm's bulk then, and I am a big fan of that idea.

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by TDIPower » Thu 19 Sep , 2019 18:30 pm

I was looking at your pics again, I don't know if this could give you any issues in the future but you have a mag base DTI on top of a stepper motor, Wonder if the magnet could impact its operation.

Pete

MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Thu 19 Sep , 2019 21:16 pm

good question! I have not tried to use the motor with it on there, in this case I was using it to check runnout, then stuck it to the cabinet shortly after!

MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Mon 23 Sep , 2019 3:09 am

So the swap was a success for the lathe, and mostly a success for the mill! (don't have spindle speed control yet on mill) I will be investigating this week.

MadeForThat
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 May , 2019 15:15 pm
Hardware/Software: 2x Micromill 2000:
Denstep cards with beta chips, running vr milling through a usb-rs232 converter and using all stock electronics otherwise. Looking to change to Nextstep card to allow tapping into 4th axis.
novaturn ns:
Nextstep card but unable to run on modern vr turning due to lack of support for older license files. Likely will be receiving a centroid acorn controller and software.

Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by MadeForThat » Tue 24 Sep , 2019 14:27 pm

While investigating, it seems the "spindle on" command will simply turn the spindle on to the minimum speed defined under "machine parameters." In my head I beleived the front spindle speed would adjust the speed between the minimum and maximum speed, but in reality, it scales the speed around the minimum value. ie: if the minimum speed is 100rpm, and the spindle knob is turned to 75% or 125% then the resulting real rpm would be 75 or 125 rpm respectively.

Martin
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Joined: Fri 24 Feb , 2006 17:09 pm
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Re: "downgrading" from nextstep to denstep

Post by Martin » Tue 24 Sep , 2019 16:08 pm

The pots on the front are override pots.

The range on the spindle pot is between 50% & 120%. Therefore if you request a speed of 2000rpm & the override is at 50% the actual speed will be 1000rpm. It does not go below 50% so you can't stop it if you are running in in auto.

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