NOVAMILL TO MACH 3 Conversion

[Richjfoxone]

Ive just bought a Denford Novamill CNC, and like many others im sure id like to convert it to MACH 3. I have the electronics but not the software, so as I understand I will need to at least replace the boards to get it up and running.

Really what im hoping for is any information that people might have on the best boards to replace the existing ones with and whether its worth replacing the motors too.

Ive found a few places that sell boards but if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be apprieciated.

Any other tips or hints you guys can offer would also be useful, id like to focus on getting it up and running but feel feel to leave comments. I guess ill probably be back on here looking for help with setup.

I realise this topic has probably been dicussed before so thank you for your patience.

[Denford Admin]

Which novamill control has it ?
If you have a newer Baldor control card it may be more cost effective to keep it as it is and upgrade to the USB controller.
I'm not sure, but Denford may be able to offer V5 VRMilling for far less money - it depends what the current electronics are - can you send a photo of the electronics and machine serial no.

See these links for Denford machine upgrade info:
Reasons to upgrade to v5: viewtopic.php?t=101
Machine and control upgrade guide: viewtopic.php?t=116

[Richjfoxone]

Im not sure which controller i have, is there a way to find out?

At this stage im open to any suggestions although it would be handy for me to get it up and running on mach 3. Ive hopefully attached some images if they are not clear ill take some more,I believe the serial number is 91124G1/2 from jan 2000.

Ill take a look at those links thank you for your response.

[bradders]

Its a Denstep

[JohnHaine]

I'm not sure if you can adapt the Denstep to accept step and direction signals from a breakout board driven from Mach3, but if you can I guess that is ideal. Mach3 I believe cannot directly drive the PC input on the Denstep as this is driven via RS232.

If you need to replace the stepper drivers then you can get the whole package, drivers plus BoB from HK via ebay for around £100. A 36v 11A PSU is around £35, again from ebay.

I have taken this approach (as the Novamill I bought came without electronics) and it worked fine. I did not replace the steppers, they work very well using modern microstep drivers at quite reasonable currents (I use 4.2A drivers set to ~1.5A for X and Y and I think ~2.5A for Z).

Overall I converted the mill for well under £200, and I am very pleased indeed with the result. (I already had the Mach3 licence for my lathe.) Happy to answer any questions, could supply the XML if it helps, photos etc.

John.

[Denford Admin]

Contact Denford - if that EPROM is v2.1 (which it appears to be) you can get a license of V5 milling which will run on XP,win7 and would run the machine fine without any conversion or hassle (famous last words )
The only issue being that you'd have to still use a PC with an RS232 port

[Richjfoxone]

So heres the latest, i spoke to Denford and they replied with the following (see below),

Here are my thoughts.... i have an untested machine, I was told it was working but i have yet to see it run, i trust the seller but even if the motors and boards etc are fine, are they now out dated? what if they arent fine? Do i spend the money on out dated software to get out dated hardware running, or buy new boards and motors to run MACH 3, Cost wise the obvious choice is to convert it as ill get updated hareware for the same price if not cheaper as the VR program alone. i am reluctant to spend £1,342.00 as quoted by denford to get old hardware running with new software, which is another option.


So for now im swinging towards a conversion, but still have a few questions

How do i identify the correct boards and motors id require, theres probably a whole range of different ones.
Can anyone recommend a package and supplier?


Our electrical record sheet for your Novamill 91124G 1/2 (JAN 2000) shows it being dispatched with DOS 2.102 software, but I have a note saying we sent out VR Milling ver 2. To confirm this can you have a look at the EPROM on the Baldor Denstep control board (Orange connection around the periphery of the board) and see what numbers are on it. If it is Ver 2.0 or 2.1 the it will run VR Milling Ver 2.



VR Milling Ver 2.31 (No more development work to be carried out on this version) software (Hard Copy) does require a licence. It is £250.00 + £10.00 P&P + VAT (Alternatively the software can be downloaded from our web site and we can e mail the licence key to save time and the P&P.) Note !!! VR Milling Ver 2 will run on a XP platform but not Vista or Windows 7 and will require an RS232 port on your PC.



Alternatively, your Novamill has a Denstep control, so we can offer an upgrade to our latest VR Milling 5 software, control board, USB connection and it will run on XP, Vista and Windows 7 operating systems. (The machine should be in 100% working order for the upgrade to work, any faulty parts not associated with the upgrade would be chargeable)



VR Milling Ver 5 CNC Machine Control Software Virtual Reality (VR) CNC Milling 5 is an improved and updated version of our CNC machine control software incorporating Denford PCB Manufacturing Software and 2D DXF import facilities, together with USB connectivity, delivering machining times up to 40% faster than before on certain machines. Enhanced features provide the user with new machining capabilities, simplified options in datum setting, improved tool and work offset features and a new, powerful, virtual reality 3D simulation engine



Novamill 91124G 1/2 (JAN 2000) - Upgrade Part No UGR0006 - £1,342.00



+ Some Engineers travel time @ £75.00/hr + parts not associated with upgrade (if any) + VAT



(Note!! to cut the travel costs, we endeavour to do as many service visits we can in one trip and split the travel costs pro rata with every customer to make it cheaper for all)



A PC should be available for each of the Microrouter upgrades, to the following minimum specification IBM or 100% Compatible PC, Pentium III, 500Mhz and above, 128MB RAM, 50MB Free Hard Disk Space, Microsoft Windows XP/NT/2000 and later, CD-ROM Drive, USB 2 ports, OpenGL 3D Accelerator Graphics Card with 64MB RAM supporting at least 1024 x 768 screen resolution.

[Denford Admin]

For a quick test of the machine, I'd remove the Baldor top board, get a Mach BOB and hook it up to the 96-way connector on the Baldor to send step+direction signals to the steppers.
You could always turn the spindle on via a push-button for now.

Some relevant posts I've bookmarked may help:
Mach3 running unmodified Triac!!!
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1108
Help with Triac VMC converting to Mach
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1763
Novamill, first time in cnc (Mach conversion)
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2263
PKS Digiplan with Mach3
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=929&start=0
viewtopic.php?t=2263
Baldor Nextstep Step and Direction pins - 96way connector
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2264
Baldor eurocard schematic and 96 way pinout:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2119

[RNR107]

Hi Rich,
Where are you based?
If you can bring the Mill to me (Bradford BD18) I'll do the conversion for you for 50 quids. (not including the parts ofcourse)...

Laurent.

[Richjfoxone]

Hi Laurent.

Well that sounds like a tempting offer, although im about 300 miles south of you, plus i have no way of transporting it. The cost of getting it to you out weighs the benefit i think, I am actually quite keen on having a go myself with it first, then at least i can understand whats been done and trouble shoot in the future.

Thanks for the offer though,

[RNR107]

Hi Rich,
I would only need the electric cabinet (the control unit) but event tho, I guess 300 Miles is far...

Seeing your picture of the electronic, it looks easy enough to convert...
All you need in there is the spindle control board (Bottom left corner) and possibly the PSU on the bottom and top left corner mains filter...
Ho... and the big relay to switch the spindle ON and OFF in the middle....

The rest of the electronic can sell on eBay.

If you need any help, let me know...

Laurent

[flyingmike]

Both Rhonmac and diycnc do plug and play 3 axis units for about £300-£400 all boxed up in an enclosure that is about 1/4 the size of the denford one. All you need then is to use the old spindle driver in its own box.

If I did another I would just buy the bits and do it myself (as I am with a lathe) cost would be about £300 from the likes of zapp automation. A bit more expensive than ebay but you have the support. If you have the room in your workshop then just use the black denford enclosure and fill it with new electronics.

[Richjfoxone]

After some time with the Denford Novamill machine, i have the axes running using UIM2901-5A BoB from zapp automation through mach 3 and some drivers i bought, this seem to be working fine.
I am however stuck with driving the original spindle through the sprint 400 board using this BOB, i did manage to get it to fired it up and adjust some speeds but it seem to be permanantly running, im not sure if there is something im doing wrong with the spindle go relay or mach3 i think its more likely a wiring thing?

Also since having the axes running i had decided to pull the black box apart in order to try and condense down the size of the unit. Im trying to identify exactly what components i need to get the spindle running again and how to wire them together.

There are large tranformers and chokes plus GIR SGR relays and switches which if im honest im not sure what they all do.

Like i say i have the axes running but i was hoping someone could point me in the right direction with exactly which components are required for the spindle and maybe some wiring help, are things like the choke required? does this board take 240v ac or is driven from the transformer? the diagrams seem to suggest it runs 240v ac but i wanted to be 100% sure before potentially (no pun intended) blowing something to pieces

Any help to get my project back on its feet would be great!

[Denford Admin]

SGR is/was the Spindle Go Relay, so you should be turning that off the make the spindle stop - think a contact of SGR should go to pins 4 and 5 on the Sprint.
I'd say, everything in the black box should still be used, apart from the Baldor control and steppers..

[Denford Admin]

ah ok well i was starting to think that id have to use all the bits myself, do you know much about the wiring from the bob im using to the spindle board? does the spindle have a minimum run speed then? i could turn it on and off by ground the sgr, but shouldnt mach 3 be controlling that not a switch i physically have to turn on? maybe im wrong? also does the nove mill have means to measure spindle speed do you know?

You should be able to wire up the BOB to turn on/off the SGR relay...whether the BOB can drive the relay coil directly or not I don't know...you'd have to look at the current draw of the coil and the specs of the BOB outputs (if it has any spare?)
There are others on here who know about BOB's and gettting an isolated anlogue signal out of Mach3 - it's not something I've ever seen or used.
There won't be any way of measuring the spindle speed unless there is a tacho on the spindle motor - again no idea if you could interface that to Mach or not

[Richjfoxone]

After some time away from the Novamill/mach3 conversion project and having moved house etc. I've finally been able to start looking at the machine again. I do feel a little like I've taken some steps back but I'm pretty happy with the results so far, I have all the hardware working she homes, runs all axes and I finally sorted out control of the spindle. Machining projects are looking much closer.

However I still have a few questions that I'm not entirely sure on though so I'm hoping someone maybe able to help?

1. The spindle setup in MACH3 it asks for pulleys min/max speed ratio etc?? What do I put in here? (the top rpm of 5000 is written on the box)
2. Any ideas on the correct setup for the spindle in the other config windows and motor tuning? Ive fathomed enough to get it running but feel I might have missed something?
3. The spindle seems to run even when speed is 0 on the screen is this normal?
4. Does the Novamill accommodate CW & CCW rotation? I can only run in one direction so far.

Any help with any of that would be great.

Cheers

[Denford Admin]

1. Depends on the drive setup - you really need an optical tacho to set up the speed range correctly
2. Don't know anything about Mach sorry.
3. It will probably do something even when spindle command is 0, I'd set a minimum speed of 100RPM or so in the software. Getting it to stop should be done by turning off the SGR relay (RUN input).
4. I can't find a reverse input on the Sprint 400 so may need to use a different drive.

[Richjfoxone]

Dropout.jpg (27.58 KiB) Viewed 27829 times

Just thought id share in the success of all my efforts in finally getting some parts made and thank all those patient enough to offer a helping hand during moments of insanity. Theres a few tweaks left with the machine i like to sort. For example i'm still stuck on calibrating the spindle i have an optical tacho now but its independent from the machine. The spindle setup in Mach 3 confuses me... plus im lead to believe theres a glitch in the program which means the spindle speed isnt whats requested at the initial start up. The only other thing at the moment is the feed rates im sure 200mm a minute max isnt right, does any know the feed capability of the Denford nova mill? with all new drivers bob and software im sure its a case of tweaking thing but since its machining pretty accurately at the moment im incline to leave as is.

Any way thanks for all your help im sure ill be back here with more issues as i start to get into more machining.

[Denford Admin]

Thanks for returning and posting back some good news

I'd say you should be able to run the machine at 2000mm/min max...we once developed a micro-stepping Novamill Pro and that was capable of those feeds.

[angel-tech]

I put a triple stack nema 23 stepper and a 50v driver on the x axis of a novamill and got nearly 5m/min before it stalled. It would safely run at 3m/min, but it was overkill on such a small mill.