Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

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darrylh
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Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Mon 10 Sep , 2012 15:14 pm

Looking for help with Fanuc upload problems please.

Recently I have been cutting thicker metal than ever before and cannot upload the bigger files to the Fanuc OM control. Until now, files have been 4-5k size in Windows speak. Files of 6k or more fail to upload and I get 087 Alarm. When this happens I get about 3/4 of the file uploaded and I have tried to add code manually....but after a line or two added, I get a 911 Parity alarm. The machine recovers every time from this error. I have done some tests on the 4k files that upload OK, and have copied half the code again to make the file size 6k. When I upload this larger file it fails at about 75% with an 087 alarm.

It seems like after a certainly number of lines of code (or file size, 6k) the upload bombs out with an 087 alarm. I have looked up the 087 alarm but it cannot be comms config, as in my upload test above, I am using the same code that is proven to work in the 4k upload.

Checking the machine memory (note I only ever have 1 prog on the machine):

Prog used: 1. Prof free: 62. Mem used: 2565. Mem free: 46586

Param 901: 01000010
Thanks for any suggestions

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by Denford Admin » Mon 10 Sep , 2012 15:45 pm

To help conversion of punched tape meters to bytes:
5120 M (Metres) = 2 Mb
2560 M= 1 Mb
1280 M= 512Kb
640 M= 256Kb
320 M= 128Kb
160 M= 64Kb
120 M = 48Kb
80 M= 32Kb
40 M= 16Kb
20 M= 8Kb
10 M= 4Kb
1 M= 400 Bytes
0.010M = 4 bytes

Your parameter 901 means you should have 48Kb so plenty for a 6Kb program to fit into.
Showing 46586 free also ties up with you having the 48Kb option.

The 087 alarm is buffer overflow - I'd guess that the control is slowing down as the memory fills up, but if the data is still coming then the comms buffer gets full and the control says "enough is enough" and stops receiving any more data.
Either the RS232 is not wired up to do handshaking, the parameters aren't set correctly, or the baudrate is just too high.

Some other links that may help:
Some posts regarding backing up a Fanuc before clearing the memory:
Fanuc 0tc 0mc RS232 reader puncher parameters:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2475

This one is long, but lots of tips related to Fanuc RS232 and parameters (especially the bit about not turning off when LSK is flashing!)
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2316

Triac Fanuc OM-B Memory Upgrade:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2097

Hold down EOB when outputting to backup the 900 parameters as well.
viewtopic.php?t=391
It WILL be worth writing the 450 diagnostics & 900 parameters down just in case!

Check your parameter settings related to RS232:
viewtopic.php?t=1179

darrylh
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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Mon 10 Sep , 2012 20:40 pm

Thanks for the links. I think the only thing of relevance is the port settings on the PC and I will check buffer speed and FIFO in Windows. I have already checked baud etc on machine and PC. I understand the 087 alarm meaning but how do you explain the 911 error when adding just 1 line more to a file that has been uploaded OK?

I believe param 901 is wrong on the machine. Is this a possible cause of the problem (should be 01000100, not 01000010 as currently set).

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Tue 11 Sep , 2012 22:01 pm

I believe the 087 alarm to be a red herring. Here is another test I tried.......any ideas anyone??

I uploaded a 4k programme to the machine (mem usage as follows: 1 programme used. Mem used 2916. Mem free: 45295). Loaded OK. Then loaded the same file as Programme 02, but after 50% loaded I get a 911 Parity error. The machine recovers after a PWE reset and DEL on power up. I tried this test 3 times and get the same result every time. Machine just will not take more than 6k despite what memory use states.

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by Denford Admin » Wed 12 Sep , 2012 8:42 am

How about loading 3 off 2Kb programs then manually typing a 4th program in...will it allow another 2Kb ?
It could be the memory really is faulty and breaks when trying to write above 6Kb

If you don't get anywhere, it could be worth clearing the memory and starting again.
I found these instructions and they look pretty comprehensive...just be absolutely sure you have all the parameters and diagnostics saved...remembering that the 900 options may not be output with the rest of the parameters.
http://www.shoprag.com/procedures/Resto ... ontrol.pdf

Hold down EOB when outputting to backup the 900 parameters as well.
viewtopic.php?t=391

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Thu 13 Sep , 2012 21:42 pm

Yes, I just hit a wall at 6k, irrespective of the number of files uploaded (can be 6 x 1k or 1 x 6k, same result: 911 Parity (high).

I think it makes sense that the memory is shot and maybe the machine thinks only 6k of memory is available, so looking to do a rebuild this weekend. Just another thought...someone I spoke to quoted replacing the batteries to fix a 911 error (batts were new about 12 months ago, but I'll get some if you think it might work). Thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by Denford Admin » Fri 14 Sep , 2012 9:32 am

Maybe low batteries could cause the issue in the first place, but only when the machine has been off+turned back on.
Will be worth replacing them for what they cost

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Sun 16 Sep , 2012 17:48 pm

Thanks for the procedure. I thought it unlikely to be the batteries (does it not come up "BATT" on the screen if batteries are low?). I ran the procedure and it took a lot less time that I thought it would. The only discreancy from the procedure was that I did not get the "Delete memory (OK?)" when param 901 gets cleared, but nevertheless all the params had gone to zero and 4 alarms came up on switch on.
I ran a 4k prog and it worked perfectly after the rebuild. The only difference I could see is that the memory usage/capacity (PROG, P) has changed.....now shows as 32k capacity, rather that 48k. However, I uploaded another 4k prog and I still get the 911 alarm about half way through the upload.

I ran across a triac thread stating 4k of memory is on the system board and 4 x 32k in expansion slots. Is it possible (regardless of what the PROG, P memory stats say.......and I read on another thread this info can be erroneous) that I just have 4k memory? In other words, no point what the 901 param is set to if there is only 4k of hardware. I need to seek out the board in the comms cabinet........WHAT DO I LOOK FOR? Is there a good source for memory chips/board, as I think this must be the problem now.....replace or upgrade memory.

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by Denford Admin » Mon 17 Sep , 2012 9:08 am

Unless someone has pinched the memory (!) it could well be that there is an issue with the additional memory chips or connectors.
The extra chips will be socketed so you'll probably find a row or two of empty ones - not sure what part no. they are but they'll look something like this:
28-pin-dil-ram.jpg
28-pin-dil-ram.jpg (9.95 KiB) Viewed 12631 times
Try removing the ones that are there and clean the sockets with switch cleaner...

You might be able to find new old chips on ebay, again not sure what size you need but these will be similar:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-SRAM- ... 0089230549

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Mon 17 Sep , 2012 9:15 am

Thanks. How do I see the attachment? (no options when I hover over)

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Mon 17 Sep , 2012 9:17 am

Ignore my last post about attachment.......I see it now! Thanks

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Mon 17 Sep , 2012 21:13 pm

please see attachment.....I guess these are the memory chips. Can you tell me what I have?

Note the existing chips appear to be directly onto the board and possibly soldered?? i.e. the presentation is not like the vacant slots. As a result, I have not attempted to remove and re-seat until confirmed they do actually come out.

One other point of interest is that I set param 901 to bit 4 (2 chips = 16K ????) and I still get the 911 alarm. The interesting thing is that PROG, P just picks up whatever you have set the bit to, NOT the capacity of the installed chips.

Thanks for the Ebay link. I see this seller has exactly the same chips I have installed. Presumably, if I get half-a-dozen and fit them in the vacant slots it may solve the 911 alarm??
Attachments
fanuc memory.jpg
fanuc memory.jpg (1.14 MiB) Viewed 12625 times

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 18 Sep , 2012 8:59 am

It's certainly worth fitting new chips and setting the memory to full.
Those existing chips do look soldered so all you could perhaps do is re-solder the back of them...could be difficult to get at.
I think the 64K chips are the ones to go for but can't be 100% sure...I can't find the post triac_whizz did a long time ago when he upgraded his

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Tue 18 Sep , 2012 9:09 am

I can get identical chips to those in the attachment NEC D43464C-15L
Are these 4k, 8k or what?

I believe the PCB is an A series and max is 48k, so not capable of 64k chips

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 18 Sep , 2012 9:11 am

Also, just reading through one of these posts:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3120
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2444

And noticed something about the RAM parity chips..you may need to add those as well. They are probably the smaller sockets just below the big RAM sockets.
Double check by looking at the two to the right - do they have the same code as the silkscreen printing under the sockets ?
Google the chip codes and see if comes back as RAM parity or RAM control etc..

PS just seen your post and those other links mention 32K chips. Try PM lone_ranger as he seems to know more about it.
Please post back your findings though!

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Tue 18 Sep , 2012 9:46 am

Thanks. I think from reading the other posts I have only 4K on the board........which would explain exactly why I am getting a 911 parity alarm on files over 4k!

To help others with a similar problem in the future I would state that (certainly on an OM series A control) what is entered in param 901 is meaningless. The software just picks up what is entered and shows that in PROG, P, INPUT. It does not cross-reference the chips installed, neither does it throw up any alarms or issues if the bit setting is wrong. This may be different on other controls, as it seems to be contrary to what some say in other threads I have read, in that it MAY throw up a system error.
What I can say is I have had various bits set over the last weeks and after power up....no effect what so ever on the operation of the CNC.

The problem now understood, clearly an upgrade is called for! I have PM'd Lone-ranger (Rob) to advise on the memory chips (I do not know the serial number for the 32k chips) but even the 2k? chips on Ebay (NEC D4364c-15L) would presumably give me a total of 16K in the interim (at £1.46 each I won't lose sleep if they don't work). Wow, if I had 4x my current memory....think what I could do!

THANKS "DENFORD ADMIN" :loads-a-money:

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 18 Sep , 2012 14:38 pm

I can get identical chips to those in the attachment NEC D43464C-15L
Are these 4k, 8k or what?
I think the 64 part of the chip means they are 8Kbits x 8address bus (ie 64Kbits total or 8Kbytes)
Although that would suggest you had 16Kb already fitted :? maybe the bus is 16bits so can only read 8Kbytes
If anyone could clarify what works in a Fanuc 0-model: A,B and C that would be great !

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by darrylh » Sat 06 Oct , 2012 16:34 pm

Just an update for future ref:

The simple reason why I was getting 911 alarms was the memory was FULL. Essentially, any upload greater than about 250 lines was failing to upload with a 911 alarm.
I managed to get some NEC chips identical to the embedded ones in the scan and fitted them in the expansion slots. The good news is I can now upload about 1100 lines of code. I believe I have 16k memory now....which does not sound a lot but I have found is plenty for 2-D work.
It may be there are some higher capacity chips that would take the memory to 48k on my OMA control but I did not have any information and stuck with the ones already installed. If I find out a serial for these I will post up.
Just a word of warning to any would be upgrader.......to make the new chips effective, a RESET + DELETE is required on the console, which wipes memory clean. Therefore it is important to have all your parameters and offsets recorded because they will be deleted. It took only about 30 minutes to re-input the params and offsets once I had installed the memory.
One suggestion made when I had the initial problem was to "enable" more memory using param 901. In my case, no extra memory was there on the board! However, I did try a number of different bit settings before I located the chips on the PCB....and basically I followed the advice and tried freeing up memory (that might not have been enabled at the commissioning of the machine). I found no noticeable effect on the machine, irrespective of what bit was set on param 901, and concluded it was just a software switch for the purpose of calculating the memory stats (PROG + P). The param doesn't cross-ref the hardware and just calculates free memory from whatever bit you have set in 901. This is just an observation and something I tried before I found where in the world the memory chips were on the PCB!
The serial of the chips I got: made by NEC "D4364C-15L". (28-PIN SRAM). I can confirm these work fine on a Fanuc OM-A, all-be-it only 2k each but I find if I only have 1 prog on the machine I can get by fine. Now I can combine a number of sub routines that I formerly had to run separately.

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Re: Fanuc OM upload/memory problems on Quatromill

Post by Denford Admin » Mon 08 Oct , 2012 8:46 am

Thanks for clarifying what worked.

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