Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

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Woodguy
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Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by Woodguy » Thu 15 Dec , 2016 0:24 am

Hello. I am new to this group and have a question about the drive belt on a TDS6 I just bought and am about to rebuild.

According to the assembly drawing for this lathe the upper drive belt from the mid pulley to the main headstock shaft is a 1/2" 40 degree 66" long "v" belt

I have found a "v" belt on the internet classed as a A65 this has inside length of 65" and outside of 67".

How are "v" belts measured. Inside or outside length.

I would like to fit a single new "v" belt type and not use one of the multiple lug type belts as was fitted.

There is some tension adjustment so I guess there is some belt length variation allowed but it would be nice to know which one I should get.

I assume, the new "v" belts of today are also 40 degree ones ?

Also I plan to fit SKF beatings with rubber seals rather than the metal dust shields as originally fitted. Any one done the same as rubber shield type are sealed and lubricated for life

Any advise welcome
Cheers
Anthony M

Andy B
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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by Andy B » Thu 15 Dec , 2016 15:52 pm

Hi Anthony,

It sounds like a standard 'A' series belt - see table CLASSICAL SECTION V-BELTS about half way down this page: http://www.thebearingshop.co.uk/prod_belts.htm

A66 belts are commonly available - for example here: http://www.beltingonline.com/a66-classi ... -belt-2371 -or from a local bearing / transmission supplier which many towns still have.

Andy

Woodguy
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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by Woodguy » Sat 17 Dec , 2016 16:09 pm

Hi CNC Expert thanks for that. Cheers

Woodguy
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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by Woodguy » Mon 06 Feb , 2017 21:38 pm

After consideration. Have decided to fit a VFD. Gone for a 2hp motor to keep torque when running at low frequency. Gone for a Invertek 1.5kw drive with remote for control. Looking to fit a contractor on the VFD input power to allow for a crash stop fitness to kill inverter power. Just need to bore drive pulley from 19mm to 24mm and get it keyed. Hmm always something to do

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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by DavidB » Mon 06 Feb , 2017 23:00 pm

Woodguy,

I would take further advice on that approach as my understanding is cutting the power to the VFD would just result in the motor coasting to a stop. I would have a look at the dynamic braking options within the VFD chosen, if available. My understanding is that for rapid braking of the motor you may need to fit an external power resistor to dump the energy produced from the rapid deceleration of the motor as heat in the resistor. The VFD may cope with some limited deceleration on its own but for rapid the external resistor may be essential due to the energy needing to be absorbed in the braking. It should be covered in the VFD manual.

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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by LesT » Tue 07 Feb , 2017 14:48 pm

I had trouble with the length specification for a V-belt for my ride on mower. There seems to be some variation on how they are measured. Took two tries to get the right size.
If I were you I would fit a link belt, requires no dismantling of the lathe and appears to work fine.
This sort of stuff:
http://www.fennerdrives.com/nutlink/
(Other brands are available)

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dazz
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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by dazz » Thu 09 Feb , 2017 10:55 am

Hihere
The poly link style belt is a good choice for a lathe. They are good at absorbing shock and vibration.

I have fitted a VFD to my Denford lathe and I am fitting a 4kW unit to a larger lathe.
On a small lathe with a 1.5kW VFD, you probably don't need a braking resister. I don't have a braking resistor fitted to the Denford, but I do have one fitted on the larger lathe.

The 1.5kW VFD should have the option of specifying the slow down rate of the motor on a stop command. The motor is then driven down to a stop.
The slow down rate cannot be too severe because of the risk of the chuck unscrewing off the spindle.

You can see my conversion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nglBxq6siTA
Regards

Dazz

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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by Woodguy » Sat 11 Feb , 2017 22:55 pm

Hi guys wow thanks for the replies. I plan to just use the VFD for normal use via the remote control. Stop start and speed changes. I think I can disable the reverse option so it will only run forward the right way we want it to. there is a slow down parameter on this VFD up to 3 seconds for slow down. This ramps down the speed to stop when the normal stop option is selected. This unit I have does not have the brake option via resistor. Ramp down is like ramp up to set speed variable from 0 to 3 seconds. I will wire the emergency crash stops on canines door micro so it cuts the power to the VFD this will then just allow the lathe to slow down on its own and will see how much overrun there is the other option is to build in timers and extra relays to use the VFD to stop the lathe with say a ramp down of 2 seconds may be then use the timer to kill all VFD power. How quick should an emergency stop be ? Health and safety at home is not the same as at work BUT SHOULD ALWAYS BE CONSIDERED to be the best that can be achieved. I will see what the overrun is on a 16" blank and decide.

Just been mounting the new motor to the plate. Had to get the old pulley on the 1hp motor bored from 19mm to 24mm and rekeying to suit the new motor. Just spent this afternoon working out where to drill the motor plate for this 2hp motor. Managed to work it out and the bolts just fit on the motor plate. No need for a conversion adapter plate. Just working out what belt size I need. Carefully aligned the pulleys so the motor pully is in line with the intermediate pulley. There is little room to fit larger motors on the same motor plate due to bolt spacing for the motor. Manage to get it aligned and drilled like original for 3/8" BSW bolts so should be ok.

Would much prefer to use a normal vee belt rather that multi-link belt. The drawings posted on here show 2x 66" belts for this bowl lathe. Think they used a unique ruler because 66" for the motor to mid transfer pully is way way too long. I do have a multi-link belt from previous user. I will use this as a length guide for the lower belt to get a proper vee belt but until I assemble the headstock etc I cannot confirm if the 66" belt for the headstock is right or wrong but have a suspicion that it may be wrong.

Had anyone an idea if the size on the drawings is correct ?

This lathe had a single phase 0.75kw 1hp motor. I have upgraded to 3 phase 1.5kh 2hp motor. 4 pole so it's normal rpm is still 1440. Reason for 2hp is at 50htz (I am in the uk) it's full power, with this VFD at 25htz is roughly half the motor power so will be equal roughly to the original 1hp motor at 15htz it's about 25% of the motor rating so 0.5hp from the new 2hp motor should be enough for what I need

I will still have the 4 speeds via the pulley so I reckon if I pick the slowest normal speed at 50htz I will have 320rpm via the pulley if I then go down in motor speed with the VFD to 25htz will be 165rmp and at 12htz I will be 88rpm

I can also overrun the motor to 100htz so all in all I should have a very veritable speed lathe.

Will post more as I build. Oh also managed to turn an adapter for the main shaft to allow me to fit 3/4 x 16 threaded gear to the 11/2" RH end. Next is a 1" adapter also for other gear for use. Looking to use the lh thread end. Does anyone know if there are parts to mount on the spindle anywhere or is it a turn them yourself job by

Cheers
Anthony

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dazz
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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by dazz » Sun 12 Feb , 2017 0:40 am

Hello
I would recommend you simply use the VFD run down option as an emergency stop. The aim is to stop the spindle rotating as quickly as possible and that is achieved with power on the VFD. There are technical reasons to avoid cutting power to the VFD supply. Under certain circumstances, it can damage the VFD.

I have fitted a raised red stop button on the upper control panel so it is easy to activate. This is both the normal and emergency stop switch. This is connected in series with the door switches and the foot kick switch so if one is opened, the lathe stops.

Dazz
Regards

Dazz

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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by Pete. » Sun 12 Feb , 2017 9:49 am

I think the braking is being over-thought here. If it's so important why fit a large motor which has more momentum and needs more energy to stop it?

I would do what Dazz says and just fit it up and use the VFD's normal braking. Don't kill the power with the e-stop, use it to remove the run command and wire it in series with all the other interlocks, that way you'll never start the lathe if there's a door open and you can use the normal braking mode of the VFD.

The original lathe had no braking after all.

Woodguy
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Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by Woodguy » Sun 12 Feb , 2017 21:00 pm

Hi all thanks for the experience, your probably correct I am over thinking but that's what I do, guess it's my engineering background and experience with working with computer systems for 25 years.

I think I will take your advise and use the built in ramp down to stop the lathe. With using the remote keypad for main control, start stop and speed up / down this would use the ramp down option to stop. I can indeed wire the emergency stop in to the stop circuit option so ramp down is used. I agree a controlled stop / ramp down is better than a free overrun

Will advise when I get it wired and tested.

Thanks for your advise experience
Cheers

Woodguy
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Joined: Fri 09 Dec , 2016 17:16 pm

Re: Viceroy TDS6 Drive Belt

Post by Woodguy » Wed 08 Mar , 2017 22:27 pm

Hi all after trying various size belts I finally found an A51 was good for the upper belt and a A43 for the mid-speed pully to the motor. This gave a good adjustment position for future tension as the belts stretch. The mid pulley is on no adjustment and therefore will be ok as the upper belt beds in.

The new VFD works great. We are using the mid speed range pulley for 775 rpm. This give a speed range of 280 to 900 rpm running from approx 25 to 60 Htz. You can see the remote control in the pics. Two emergency stops using the VFD ramp down set at 2 seconds. One on top of the headstock and one on the electric panal at the RH side. Front door is also on a microswitch so it stops via the VFD also. The left start stop on the panal just pulls in a contractor for VFD power so if there is a power cut during use it will fail safe when power is supplied again needing a power on again.

As I have now fitted a 2hp 3 phase motor it only draws 3.8amp so the motor is not really under load. I have a pet project for it for a 40" bowl at some point so this motor may be more use later.

The 85 year old father in law is looking forward to using it now and I hope he gets much enjoyment from it.

Thanks for all your support and help with the overhaul it has been much appreciated cheers.
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