electrical power control box to machine

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martin.pearson
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 11 Oct , 2018 21:55 pm
Hardware/Software: I have an old Gerber system 48 converted to use modern electronics, & UCCNC software control, Design is using Vectric Aspire

I have just acquired an old Denford Triac pc which came with the black control box & desktop tutor but no computer. The idea is to use this CNC mainly for rotary work as the system 48 would require some major surgery to allow any sort of 4th axis.

Would like to join the forum to learn more so I can actually get this machine up & running, initially just to test it works but after that looking at what options there are to use as a rotary machine

electrical power control box to machine

Post by martin.pearson » Sun 06 Jan , 2019 14:31 pm

I picked up a triac pc that came with the black control box, the desktop tutor, some leads but unfortunately no computer. It originally came from a school & from what I have been told it was working when the school put it into storage. No idea when it was last run. My plan was to try & confirm it ran & then convert the motion control but leave the rest of the control box for now rather than buy new drivers etc.
Having problems with it communicating at the moment, not got to the bottom of that yet he eurocard was displaying an L with a flashing dot but after the control box had been powered on for some time yesterday i noticed it had changed to a 0.
The other thing I noticed was that despite here being power on the control box for several hours the x axis motor was cold, not sure about Y & Z axis motors as they are covered. So if the control box is connected to the machine & power is on should there be power on the axis motors? The light works & there is power to the door interlock o I know there is some power to the machine.

TDIPower
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Re: electrical power control box to machine

Post by TDIPower » Sun 13 Jan , 2019 20:20 pm

Ive not worked on a Triac but I m pretty sure given it has the desktop tutor keyboard you will want the DOS software and a PC with 2x RS232 ports

do you have the software? you can dload from the Denford site for free.


Most issues come from incorrect rs232 setup, be it the lead or the file that tells the software which com port its all connected to. Have a look through the triac and Mirac sections they have various manuals to read on running/configuring the machines.


Pete

martin.pearson
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 11 Oct , 2018 21:55 pm
Hardware/Software: I have an old Gerber system 48 converted to use modern electronics, & UCCNC software control, Design is using Vectric Aspire

I have just acquired an old Denford Triac pc which came with the black control box & desktop tutor but no computer. The idea is to use this CNC mainly for rotary work as the system 48 would require some major surgery to allow any sort of 4th axis.

Would like to join the forum to learn more so I can actually get this machine up & running, initially just to test it works but after that looking at what options there are to use as a rotary machine

Re: electrical power control box to machine

Post by martin.pearson » Thu 17 Jan , 2019 17:32 pm

Thanks for the reply Pete, have read some posts will look for more, yes I have an old pc that had one serial port & then added a pci serial board to give the 2 ports I needed. Downloaded software but not 100% sure I have downloaded the correct software, will look at that again, when I try to connect trying different configurations its always the same, get the same mint 50 error everytime.

Should there be power on the motors even if the machine can't communicate with the computer? As I said in the original post after a few hours with power on the control box the x axis motor is still stone cold, I would have expected it to have power on the motor even if there is no communication to computer. The light in the cabinet & the door safety latch both have power to them so there is some power to the machine cabinet.

TDIPower
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Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
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VR2 and VR5
Roland CAMM3 PNC3000 (For Sale)
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
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Re: electrical power control box to machine

Post by TDIPower » Thu 17 Jan , 2019 23:40 pm

I would have thought the steppers would be powered, they are on all the other denford machines I have encountered even with no computer hooked up. All I can say is there is lots of info on here, it takes time to work through it and some can contradict if you have worked with RS232 set ups in the past you will know what it can be like. Don't give up it though.

martin.pearson
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 11 Oct , 2018 21:55 pm
Hardware/Software: I have an old Gerber system 48 converted to use modern electronics, & UCCNC software control, Design is using Vectric Aspire

I have just acquired an old Denford Triac pc which came with the black control box & desktop tutor but no computer. The idea is to use this CNC mainly for rotary work as the system 48 would require some major surgery to allow any sort of 4th axis.

Would like to join the forum to learn more so I can actually get this machine up & running, initially just to test it works but after that looking at what options there are to use as a rotary machine

Re: electrical power control box to machine

Post by martin.pearson » Fri 18 Jan , 2019 2:18 am

Thanks Pete, I will keep digging but I thought there should be power on the motors & from what you have said it would seem to confirm that.
If there should be then I have more problems than just communication, at some point I am going to have to decide if I would just be better off replacing the control box & be done with all the messing around, it's an expense I can do without just now which was why I was hoping to get this up & running with the existing components or as many of them as possible.

TDIPower
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Posts: 365
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Roland CAMM3 PNC3000 (For Sale)
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
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Re: electrical power control box to machine

Post by TDIPower » Fri 18 Jan , 2019 21:21 pm

I like the denford control, quite robust and a bit over the top on safety but having a target market in the education sector it's needed. Pretty sure you should be able to dload the wiring diagrams for it, you should be able to check fuses and power supplies if you are handy with a meter. Dont rely on visuals on fuses, I have just had a unit with a fuse that looks fully intact, open circuit on the meter, had me head scratching for a while, and yes I had no 6.3a fuses at all. Good job I still own fuse wire to prove the point. Just waiting for a delivery now :)

martin.pearson
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 11 Oct , 2018 21:55 pm
Hardware/Software: I have an old Gerber system 48 converted to use modern electronics, & UCCNC software control, Design is using Vectric Aspire

I have just acquired an old Denford Triac pc which came with the black control box & desktop tutor but no computer. The idea is to use this CNC mainly for rotary work as the system 48 would require some major surgery to allow any sort of 4th axis.

Would like to join the forum to learn more so I can actually get this machine up & running, initially just to test it works but after that looking at what options there are to use as a rotary machine

Re: electrical power control box to machine

Post by martin.pearson » Mon 21 Jan , 2019 19:19 pm

I must be missing something really simple here but can't figure out what, as I said originally I would like to use as much of the original control box as possible. If I could sort the communications problems & proved the machine worked I am still not sure I would be able to use it like that because I don't thnk I would have a suitable way to program it.
Replacing the motion control would seem to be my best option at the moment for what I would like to do wit the machine.
I have now done some moe testing & I have power to motors, holding torque on all of them when cabinet powered on, he limit switches apear to be working & the door interlock o from that it would appear that there is nothing stopping any of the axis moving.
I have a licenced copy of mach3 which I don't use anymore for the system48 so tried moving each axis under mach3 control using a parallel port output.
Unplugged the eurocard & used a 96 pin connector in its place with just the step, direction & earth pins connected through a 4 axis BOB used the pinout from the eurocard manual which matches the pinout given on the forum n a number of posts but I still have no movement on any axis, is there something else I should be connecting or setting in mach3 I should be using.

I have problems that make learning & retaining info quite difficult just now so please don't be to technical with any replies lol

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Roland CAMM3 PNC3000 (For Sale)
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: electrical power control box to machine

Post by TDIPower » Mon 21 Jan , 2019 20:15 pm

Well, you have gone beyond my knowledge other than there are quite a few posts where people have done conversions. In a lot of cases the control is the same within the different machines so seeing how some did it with another machine would help. Which board is in the triac? From the description of what you have done so far I have an idea, but a photo would make it a bit easier to understand (I'm a visual learner but tend to have my eyes shut a lot of the time :) ) I have seen threads where people have removed the topboard be it a denstep, next step etc. Leaving the motor control hooked up, they have then plugged external control in on the now free connector. This sounds like what you have done.
I have also seen reference to using BoBs so given the bottom board is the same I would be sure if you have it hooked up correctly it should move. If you can post the pic up of the top board and info from the label on the box I can look in the denford software for the steps and travel it should be set up with if that would help
Pete

DavidB
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Re: electrical power control box to machine

Post by DavidB » Mon 21 Jan , 2019 20:43 pm

I'm looking to do this on a Triac as well and use much of the original controls with a BOB and Linux but it's one of a few other round TUITs. You may need to look at the Parker stepper driver details as IIRC the step and direction signals need to be pulled to ground to activate, the manual is/was readily available online. I think if you look in the Triac threads you'll find at least one post showing it done with discrete transistors and resistors in open collector format to interface between BOB and Parker drives or you might be able to use the ULN2803 which is IIRC used to drive these signals on the Denstep board. This is the post I was thinking of at the top of the threads list 'Help with Triac VMC converting to Mach' viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1763 .

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