novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

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audio.fi
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novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by audio.fi » Sat 21 Nov , 2009 4:33 am

Hi again,

Haven't written for while, but my novamill and novaturn his simply been languishing in my workshop since I installed them, got an ibm p.c. and tested them (using the dos software for both), with the help of those here on the forum (thanks). Since then, I have not had the chance to learn anything about cnc coding, but would really like to try and make something on them, and was wondering if it is possible to use them in a manual mode, i.e. using the tutor keyboards that I have for them. I realise that I can move the axis around, so is it possible to do this whilst the machines are running, then engage a slow feed as it were by holding down the keys, or indeed, is there a better way ?

Also, since the spindle to table distance on the novamill is very shallow (I thnk it is about 55mm at max height of quill),with an endmill in the collet chuck (it is the easy-change type chuck), I was wondering if there is any type of low profile standard collect chuck that can be bought for it so I can buy a small milling vice for it ? Also I am not sure what type of taper it is in the quill; I think it is called a din30, but can't seem to find out if this is the same as an iso30 or int30. Are they the same ?
Lastly, where is the spindle lock on the mill to lock the quill from turning when undoing the draw bar, as I can't find it. The only way to make it stop turning seems to be to grip the bottom of the quill which seems wrong, unless I should have a special spanner to hold it with. Any suggestions would be really appreciated.

Thanks very much.

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by Steve » Sun 22 Nov , 2009 14:09 pm

Hi,

The machine spindle has a BT 30 taper. The Easychange holder is also BT30. If you remove the polished aluminium cap on top of the head you can hold the tool with a c spanner and then loosen the drawbolt.

The easychange toolholder will then drop out of the spindle.

You could then use BT30 tooling but you would have to yse the drawbolt to fit and remove it. This would however give you another 50 - 80mm of Z travel!!

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by audio.fi » Sun 22 Nov , 2009 16:23 pm

Steve wrote:Hi,

The machine spindle has a BT 30 taper. The Easychange holder is also BT30. If you remove the polished aluminium cap on top of the head you can hold the tool with a c spanner and then loosen the drawbolt.

The easychange toolholder will then drop out of the spindle.

You could then use BT30 tooling but you would have to yse the drawbolt to fit and remove it. This would however give you another 50 - 80mm of Z travel!!
Thanks for the help.

However, what I was trying to say is how is the quill held (locked) whilst the draw bolt is tightened ? On all other machines I have ever used, there is some way of locking the spindle to stop it rotating whilst the draw bar is loosened or tightened. If there isn't one on this machine, how is it tightened ?

Thank you very much.

P.S. With regard to bt30 tooling. Am I correct that you are referring to plain collets that is simply inserted into the quill taper then tightened onto the cutter by using the draw bar, as on some other types of small milling machine ? Thanks.

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by audio.fi » Tue 24 Nov , 2009 2:11 am

Hi Again,

I have been trying to find out about the correct tooling, and from the advertising literature I have it states "atc taper = bt30 spindle taper = iso30".
I have taken out the quick change holder from the quill and it definitely looks different from the actual quick change part that the end mill fits into.
However, on inspection, the taper of the holder looks to have the same taper angle as the end mill holder, except that the end mill holder is a lot shorter and doesn't have a straight part at the end of it (where the draw bar screws in). I cannot see how this can fit in the main spindle taper properly although it does seem to fit.
Have I got this right that the tapers are not compatible and indeed, if I want to get away from the quick change system (to get more clearance), then I need to buy "iso30" tooling.

However, is there such a thing as finger collets for iso30 as I can't find any, so should I be looking for "ER" type collets and collet chuck. I am looking for the shallowest system possible.

Any help with this and also using the machine in a manual mode (if this is possible), would be most appreciated.

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 24 Nov , 2009 9:54 am

Hopefully someone with some more knowledge can help here, but I think this post may shed some light on your BT30 question:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=913

As for running the machine manually, there has never been any software done to do this from buttons or MPG's (Manual pulse generator) if that's what you had in mind ?
I think the only way would be to somehow replace the stepper motors with handwheels+gearboxes and rewire the relays for spindle start to activate from a push button.
In my opinion I think your better off getting the DOS software connected again-you need not know anything about CNC coding, just home the axes, go into JOG mode, start the spindle and JOG the axes around and make some cuts!

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by audio.fi » Tue 24 Nov , 2009 14:31 pm

Denford Admin wrote:In my opinion I think your better off getting the DOS software connected again-you need not know anything about CNC coding, just home the axes, go into JOG mode, start the spindle and JOG the axes around and make some cuts!
Thank for the help.

With regard to using the machine in "manual mode", what you are saying is roughly what I was talking about in the first place, i.e. using the axis keys on the keyboard, and holding the keys down to take a cut. However, I have only tried moving the axis around in continous mode, so if I am in jog mode, is my assumption that I would need to hold the key down to continue toe feed still correct ?
Thanks.

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 24 Nov , 2009 14:34 pm

Yes you just hold the key down for that axis to move and let go for it to stop.
I wouldn't expect pressing two at once would work though :?

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by audio.fi » Tue 24 Nov , 2009 15:07 pm

Denford Admin wrote:Yes you just hold the key down for that axis to move and let go for it to stop.
I wouldn't expect pressing two at once would work though :?
Thanks, I'll give it a go tonight !

P.S. Thanks for the earlier link, as I have now written a question there about the tooling so hopefully, I will get an answer.

Thanks.

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 24 Nov , 2009 15:13 pm

I have now written a question there about the tooling so hopefully, I will get an answer.
As far as I can tell, these tools are all the same taper, but have different lengths, internal thread sizes and drive slots (or none at all)
You should be able to make a matching drawbolt for the tools you have, to pull them directly up into the main spindle.

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by audio.fi » Thu 26 Nov , 2009 4:34 am

I had a go at using the novamill this evening, and I am very excited that I can use it without having to write code (as it were !), but I have a couple of questions please :-

1)
I know the jog increments can be changed by the keys on the tutor keyboard to be 0.5mm / 0.05mm / 0.005mm
Can this be changed to suit (i.e. can it be input manually as in the feed rate), because then a specific depth of cut could be applied with a single keypress.


2)

When I look at the monitor, how is the system interpreting where the axis are, i.e. how is this measured:-
From the rotation of the stepper motors / leadscrews or from some other method as with a D.R.O. system that would have reader scales fitted to the axis ?
What I am trying to get at is if I am trying to make a component to size, can I use the readings on the monitor as if it was a digital readout ?
I am not intending making anything elaborate, mainly simple shapes, so for one-offs the ability to use this machine manually would negate the need to buy a manual machine, (for now anyway).

Thanks.

P.S. Still had no response to my other question on the other thread, and having used the machine today, I can further explain my problem.
After fitting the cutter on the collet chuck (using the full easy-change system), I can tighten the collet nut with the spanner only if I use another spanner on the draw bar, which is o.k. until I want to loosen the collet nut, which is difficult as using both spanners simply loosens the draw bar. How is the quill gripped to unscrew the collet nut, or indeed to remove the collet chuck as I can find no lock for the rotation of the quill. How do any of you that use one of these machines achieve this ?

Thanks.

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by Denford Admin » Thu 26 Nov , 2009 9:54 am

I had a go at using the novamill this evening, and I am very excited that I can use it without having to write code (as it were !), but I have a couple of questions please :-

1)
I know the jog increments can be changed by the keys on the tutor keyboard to be 0.5mm / 0.05mm / 0.005mm
Can this be changed to suit (i.e. can it be input manually as in the feed rate), because then a specific depth of cut could be applied with a single keypress.
Can't help you there...have you downloaded all the DOS manuals ? It might tell you in there
2)

When I look at the monitor, how is the system interpreting where the axis are, i.e. how is this measured:-
From the rotation of the stepper motors / leadscrews or from some other method as with a D.R.O. system that would have reader scales fitted to the axis ?
What I am trying to get at is if I am trying to make a component to size, can I use the readings on the monitor as if it was a digital readout ?
I am not intending making anything elaborate, mainly simple shapes, so for one-offs the ability to use this machine manually would negate the need to buy a manual machine, (for now anyway).
The system simply outputs stepper motor pulses and presumes the motors have actually moved. So the readout will be accurate as long as the stepper motor dosn't stall (ie when step pulses are output, but the motor doesn't have enough power to complete them all)

Thanks.
P.S. Still had no response to my other question on the other thread, and having used the machine today, I can further explain my problem.
After fitting the cutter on the collet chuck (using the full easy-change system), I can tighten the collet nut with the spanner only if I use another spanner on the draw bar, which is o.k. until I want to loosen the collet nut, which is difficult as using both spanners simply loosens the draw bar. How is the quill gripped to unscrew the collet nut, or indeed to remove the collet chuck as I can find no lock for the rotation of the quill. How do any of you that use one of these machines achieve this ?

Thanks.
I'm not sure about this either as it's a few years since I've used one manually (we normally have EasyChange fitted, or an automatic toolchanger)
- I seem to remember having to get a C spanner on the tool to stop it rotating, undoing the drawbolt nut at the top and tapping the bolt down, although I think that was on a Triac

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by audio.fi » Thu 26 Nov , 2009 14:22 pm

Denford Admin wrote:
- I seem to remember having to get a C spanner on the tool to stop it rotating, undoing the drawbolt nut at the top and tapping the bolt down, although I think that was on a Triac
Thanks for the help. I just got a reply from the other thread with the same answer, so I have asked there, might as well ask here;

Please can you tell me what a "c spanner" is and can I buy them for this type of tooling ?

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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by Steve » Thu 26 Nov , 2009 14:34 pm

See the post on triton tooling
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Re: novaturn and novamill - can they be used manually ?

Post by audio.fi » Thu 26 Nov , 2009 14:59 pm

Thanks very much for all your help.

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