Help needed converting Novamill to Mach

[poryan]

Hi Guys,
After a few mods I have finally got my Denford Novamill up to the stage of configuring mach3. I have added new stepper motors, Nema 23 double stack motors on the X and Y axis and a Nema 34 single stack motor on the Z axis. The control I am using is from Rhonmac cnc with the controllers set to 8 microsteps.

The machine has the standard belt drive on each axis giving a reduction ratio of 1:2.5 the pitch on the ballscrew is 5mm. From this I worked out the steps per unit should be 800 (for a metric setup) I set this for each axis and when I commanded a movement of 1mm I got a very small movement on the machine. To get the machine moving the same amount as that commanded I had to set the steps per unit to 25889.97.
I`m confused as why my calculated number of 800 is so different to the actual one required?

Also, such a high steps per unit the max speed is reduced to 57.94 which is about right from a crude measurement I did with stopwatch.

One thing to note is I`m only using the demo version of mach3 as I wanted to see if it was all going to work before I bought the license. Would this make a difference?

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance!

Mike

hi ,i have a nova mill and i want to now how much cost to convert that to mach3 i need help
thanks

[JohnHaine]

Need more info. Do you have the electronics as well?

[angel-tech]

Hi Guys,
After a few mods I have finally got my Denford Novamill up to the stage of configuring mach3. I have added new stepper motors, Nema 23 double stack motors on the X and Y axis and a Nema 34 single stack motor on the Z axis. The control I am using is from Rhonmac cnc with the controllers set to 8 microsteps.

The machine has the standard belt drive on each axis giving a reduction ratio of 1:2.5 the pitch on the ballscrew is 5mm. From this I worked out the steps per unit should be 800 (for a metric setup) I set this for each axis and when I commanded a movement of 1mm I got a very small movement on the machine. To get the machine moving the same amount as that commanded I had to set the steps per unit to 25889.97.
I`m confused as why my calculated number of 800 is so different to the actual one required?

Also, such a high steps per unit the max speed is reduced to 57.94 which is about right from a crude measurement I did with stopwatch.

One thing to note is I`m only using the demo version of mach3 as I wanted to see if it was all going to work before I bought the license. Would this make a difference?

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance!

Mike

hi ,i have a nova mill and i want to now how much cost to convert that to mach3 i need help
thanks

where are you based?

[poryan]

Need more info. Do you have the electronics as well?

hi ,nova mill is working 100% but it is old nothing wrong with machine.
and machine is very clean wit easy tool change 6 tool holder and run with window 98.
any one knew how and how much cost let me know please.
sam

[poryan]

Need more info. Do you have the electronics as well?

hi ,nova mill is working 100% but it is old nothing wrong with machine.
and machine is very clean wit easy tool change 6 tool holder and run with window 98.
any one knew how and how much cost let me know please. I live in west ,London, uk
sam

[JohnHaine]

The problem is that AFAIK Mach3 works quite differently from the Denford controller. The Denford one I think includes the motion control that generates the actual step pulses for the motors, while the PC just sends it the instructions about what moves to make over the rather slow RS232 link. With Mach 3 the PC actually generates the stepping pulses and interfaces with the motor drivers via the old-fashioned 25-way parallel port. I don't think that it is easy, or even possible, to interface from the PC to the Denford drivers at this level. This means that you have to fit new stepper drivers and a suitable "breakout board" (BoB) to connect to the PC parallel port. There are two approaches: one is to buy a complete unit or kit of parts such as this:

http://www.diycnc.co.uk/html/cnc_systems.html

which costs about £250. Or you could buy a set of drivers and the BoB separately for much less from eBay - mine cost me £100 for 3 drivers and the BoB. You could use the existing electronics unit case and power supply etc.

Be aware that AFAIK Mach3 can't operate an ATC. Also I think you would have to upgrade the PC to WinXP which might mean a new PC (but a good used XP PC without monitor should cost less than £100).

Then there is the cost of the Mach3 licence for a fully functional system which is a bit over £100 I think?

Overall starting from an existing functional Novamill and PC, even if you have to buy a newer PC a Mach3 conversion should be possible for less than £500. You will also need to configure Mach3 for the Novamill, but that isn't hard and there is plenty of help available here and on the Mach support forum.

Hope this helps.

[angel-tech]

you can interface mach to the denford electronics and use the existing stepper drivers.

[Denford Admin]

Be aware that AFAIK Mach3 can't operate an ATC

I'm sure it's possible, but you would require additional hardware and some programming ability:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=392&view=next

To be honest though I can't see why you'd want to upgrade to Mach and lose the ATC if it is all working 100% as it is.
If the novamill is on the DOS software then I believe it will run on newer PC's with DosBox.
If it's using VR Milling v2 software then I can't see why you'd want to change it at all, unless you really need rapid 3D contouring ?

[bpmsl]

I'd agree VR milling 2 is perfectly good for hobby use when time isn't critical and you want to do 3d profiling. I've not used dos sw on my novamill, but i do use it on my novaturn and to be honest that is perfectly acceptable for hobby use too.

So as i understand it youve got a large cost for mach and extra hardware pluss grief of the mod, or roughly the same for a v2 licence, or free dos SW... and notihing to worry about but configuing the pc...

Dosbox is good as the dos software works, but was glitchy on my novaturn. The approach i ended up with is to get an old laptop with a hardware rs232 port and dos based windows. Mine is an old toughbook with win 2k which will boot direct to dos. It's seamless with both my lathe on Dos and mill on vr milling 2 and only cost £40 on ebay.

Long term I'm considering moving to win sw for my lathe as its a bit of a faf getting the gcode onto the laptop in dos mode as the usb pen drive doent work in dos but finaces preclude it at the mo.

Just my 2p...

Cheers
BPM

[angel-tech]

I've converted quite a few atc machines to mach3 with full control of the atc.

[poryan]

HELLO TO EVERY ONE
FOR ME LOOKS TO COMPLICATED ...
TO BUY ALL THIS ,IN STALL, AND RUN, FIND THE PROBLEM.AND IF EVERY THINGS GO TO PLAN I HAVE TO SPEND MINIMUM 500 UP TO 700, BUY PART, NEW PC, MACH3
I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT ELECTRONIC. MAYBE FOR YOU ALL OR MUST OF YOU LOOKS LIKE EXPERT BUT FOR ME , I AM NOT SURE HOW TO CONVERT MY NOVA MILL TO MACH3
WELL I THINK I HAVE TWO OPTION
NUMBER ONE FIND SOME ON LOCALLY ( IS ANY ONE LIVE NEER WEST LONDON) TO HELP POSSIBLY DO THE CONVERT OR HELP ME SO I WILL BE ABLE OR
OPTION NUMBER TWO IS SELL MY MILL AND BUY NEW MILL NOT EXPENSIVE ONE , SOME THING LIKE SYIL X4 OR SYIL SPED MASTER
AND EVERY THING IS THERE SO I DON'T NEED DO ANY THING JUST PUT G COD AND THAT IS ALL.
AS YOU ALL KNOW CONVERT IS NOT 100% OK .I SAW SOME EXAMPLE BUT WIRE CABLE EVERY WHERE AND ON TIDY NOT LOOKS GOOD AT ALL.
BECAUSE I AM ENGINEER AND I AM NOT TO GOOD ON SOFT WERE AND ELECTRONIC AND ALSO THE MONEY SIDE
AS WELL IS NOT BIG DIFFERENT SO MAYBE BY CHINES ON READY NEW AND I KNOW IS NOT GOOD AS DENFORD
BUT FOR SOME ONE LIKE ME MAYBE IS BEST OPTION
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK
MY NOVAMILL 2.6 AN MADE IN 2000

[JohnHaine]

You seem to be saying that the present system works, so why do you want to change? The reason I converted to M3 was that the machine I bought had lost its controller so I had to build a new one anyway. Having looked at the Chinese mills and now having got my Novamill running, the Denford quality is simply in a different league. What are you hoping that Mach 3 will give you that the present machine doesn't have?

[Denford Admin]

Please tell us what the problem is with the current machine (as we are just guessing as to why you want to use Mach3)
Does the machine connect and run under the win 98 PC ?
Is it using the DOS control software ?

[angel-tech]

Having looked at the Chinese mills and now having got my Novamill running, the Denford quality is simply in a different league

Totally agree, 100%

[poryan]

Please tell us what the problem is with the current machine (as we are just guessing as to why you want to use Mach3)
Does the machine connect and run under the win 98 PC ?
Is it using the DOS control software ?

hi,thanks to try to help
nothing wrong with machine and yes mill work under 98 pc and software is VR 2,6 original.
machine 100% working and as new .

I have two problem
number one is the speed of spender is not fast enough ,it good for hobby or cut little wood or plastic or similar things for student but sadly such good machine dos not do the my job or maybe they not design for such things I don't know ,
please correct me if I am wrong,(SOME ONE TOLD ME THEY DESIGN ONLY FOR SCHOOL NOT FOR HEAVY JOB)
and number two is some time doesn't read the g cod but the same code work with mach3 or maybe the code been written
just for mach3 please correct me if I am wrong (ARE THEY different ) and also with mach3 we have more control in term of speed and feed or maybe my mill is old and need new software please tell me any thing can help also how much the cost to upgrade the nova mill my one every thing is original nothing wrong and clean is VR 2.6 AND OUT BY OCTOBER 2000. .thanks every one
sam

[poryan]

Having looked at the Chinese mills and now having got my Novamill running, the Denford quality is simply in a different league

Totally agree, 100%

HI
HAVE YOU SEEN SYIL X4 SPEED MASTER OR X4 PLUS
THANKS
SAM

[angel-tech]

Having looked at the Chinese mills and now having got my Novamill running, the Denford quality is simply in a different league

Totally agree, 100%

HI
HAVE YOU SEEN SYIL X4 SPEED MASTER OR X4 PLUS
THANKS
SAM

yes

[Denford Admin]

Download the latest version of VR Milling 2.31 here and install that:
http://www.website.denford.ltd.uk/suppo ... -downloads
Make sure you keep a copy of the flash license code-see here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2543

doesn't read the g cod but the same code work with mach3 or maybe the code been written

I don't understand what you mean. If you're using a CAM system then VR milling 2 will perform no differently than Mach3 would as it's all just G00G01/G02/G03 moves.
Maybe Mach has more drilling or pocketing G code cycles ? The latest version of VR milling 2 has macro programming abilities which means you can write sub programs to do pretty much anything.

with mach3 we have more control in term of speed and feed

There will either be feed and speed override pots on the actual machine or in the software - this depends on the parameter setup.
VR 2 also had editor functions that enable you to alter say, all the "F"eed or "S"peed values in a program.
How much more control do you require ?

[poryan]

HI, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT AND TRY TO DO THIS WAY AND CAN I ASK YOU HOW MUCH THE COST TO UPGRADE THE NOVA MILL ,
I LOVE THIS LITTLE MACHINE AND NOW I DECIDE TO LIVE THE MACHINE ALONE IT IS TO GOOD TO TOUCH THAT AND I TRY TO INSTALL VR 2 AS YOU SAID AND MAYBE LOOK FOR BIGGER MACHINE AND LIVE THE NOVA MILL FOR SMALL JOB.
THANKS AGAIN.
SAM

[angel-tech]

Mach3 is a pretty good replacement controller for the old Denford dos based controllers, and it's very cheap to change over to mach3.
It gives you a windows based interface like VR milling but no more usefull than the Denford software.
If you have a working Denford system then it would be sensible to stay with this, as it's already setup for the machine.
Mach3 takes a fair bit of time and skill to get setup correctly on your machine, and there are some "in the know" tricks to get Mach3 functional.