1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

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Wod
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Hardware/Software: 1992 Mirac PC/FLSTEP

1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Tue 05 May , 2015 19:00 pm

I just acquired a 1992 Mirac PC lathe. Can anyone tell me the pinout for the cable that connects the computer to the control box?
Thanks

Martin
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Martin » Wed 06 May , 2015 12:39 pm


Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Wed 06 May , 2015 17:18 pm

Thanks for the pinout info. I think I looked at that post a dozen times and didn't realize what I was seeing. Now when I boot up I get a message that says that the MACHINE was loaded, the KEYBOARD was loaded and then it unloads both and ends with an error <128>. From what I can glean from the forum, that's some kind of communication error. Guess I'll have to see if I can track that one down. Any suggestions on where to start?

Martin
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Martin » Wed 06 May , 2015 19:20 pm

Have you tried the machine in both com ports?

gilles310
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by gilles310 » Thu 07 May , 2015 5:50 am

hello
have you the dongle on the parallel port?
i had same trouble without

Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Thu 07 May , 2015 17:07 pm

I only have one serial port set up right now and I know it's okay because I plugged in an old mouse and it operates okay. The guy that I got the lathe from got it from a technical school and I have a box of 19 dongles. I've tried them all and still no luck. The computer that I got with the lathe wouldn't boot, so I've been trying to set up a new one to use. I have DOS 6.0 installed. Here's my .GO file and what I think each line means.

IBM.RS2 1 -Set up one instance of the IBM com port
$3F8 4 MACHINE -Set the com port address to $3F8 and use interrupt #4 to talk to the machine
QDENFORD.KBD 1 -Use the Denford QWERTY keyboard driver
18.2 1 -Use the keyboard port on the computer
VGA.CRT 0 -Use the VGA video driver
FLSTEP.APP -Run the FLSTEP program

Here's the message that I get at boot up.

DENFORD MIRAC CNC programming (v2.25) 11 June 1997
IBM RS232 DRIVER (RS232) 25 March 1992
MACHINE installed
IBM for FANUC KEYBOARD DRIVER (KBD) 16 July 1993
KEYBOARD DRIVER removed
RS232 DRIVER removed

Error <128> Software aborted

I'm pretty stuck on what to try next. Any ideas on where to look next would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Thu 07 May , 2015 17:27 pm

I found a post called "Old technical support queries" and it said to run a program called DRIGHTS with the dongle installed. Here's the output I get when I run the file.


Dongle Package Rights -- v1.31 ( 15th October 2003 )
(c) Denford Limited, Brighouse, West Yorkshire

The dongle identifier is 00001212
The following packages have permission :-

Fanucm Fanucmd Fanucl Fanucld


Press any key...

Obviously I need to incorporate one or more of these in some file, probably my .GO file. I will do some more investigation and report back.

Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Mon 11 May , 2015 18:07 pm

Okay, I finally got some more time to work on the lathe. I've installed a second and third serial port. Here's my new .GO file.

IBM.RS2 2
$3F8 4 COM1
$3F8 4 MACHINE
DENFORD.KBD 1
18.2 $3E8 5
HVGA.CRT 0
flstep.app

When I run this I get this message.

DENFORD MIRAC CNC programming (v2.25) 11 June 1997
IBM RS232 DRIVER (RS232) 25 March 1992
COM1 installed
MACHINE installed
IBM DESKTOP PROGRAMMER DRIVER (KBD) 16 December 1992
VGA DRIVER (HARRISON CRT) 1st March 1994
initializing MINT 3.28.

Then the computer hangs and all of the relays in the control box cycle between energized and de-energized until I shut the computer down.
Does anyone have any idea what a MINT 3.28 even is and how I would go about figuring out why it's hanging? If I replace the last line of my .GO file with fanucsld.app it boots into the control program as expected. All of the buttons on the Turtor keyboard function, but when I try to home the machine nothing happens. I think I read somewhere on the forum that some of the fanuc programs were solely for offline programming and were not machine control programs. The book that I got with the lathe says to use flstep, but it hangs and bangs when I run it. I'm definitely stuck as to what to try next.
Thanks

Martin
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Martin » Tue 12 May , 2015 9:07 am

What control does your machine have. Looking back at the record sheets from 1992 it looks like it should be fitted with a GSM LCB3 card in which case I don't think the FLSTEP software would be correct.

I would have thought you should be connecting with MIRAC & not FLSTEP

Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Tue 12 May , 2015 17:22 pm

I do indeed have the GSM LCB3 card. I tried replacing the flstep.app in my .GO file with mirac.app. I get the same screen and reaction that I got when I ran the fanucsld.app. The Tutor keyboard works fine. When I hit the HOME button I am taken to the homing screen, but when I try to home the machine, I get nothing. I modified my .GO file to use the QWERTY keyboard with the mirac.app. I can get to the homing screen from the QWERTY keyboard too, but I can't get the machine to home. I guess I need to start tracing some physical wiring to make sure that the signal is getting from the RS232 port to the board. Thanks.

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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by TDIPower » Tue 12 May , 2015 21:29 pm

Because you are getting some reaction from the machine running the go file I think you do have coms on the RS232. However when I had the 128 issue with my Starturn swapping the TX/RX line over solved the problem. It took me a while to sort out as I had a genuine Lindy/Denford lead with it.
Rather than cutting open the moulded lead I just swapped it over on the back of the 25w in the cabinet. Worth a try just to prove/disprove that point.

Pete

Martin
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Martin » Wed 13 May , 2015 12:34 pm

Are you sure you are connecting & not just using off-line software? Can you try it with the machine turned off.

Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Wed 13 May , 2015 19:54 pm

I tried swapping out the RX/TX leads on the plug and when I do I get the <128> error. When I switch them back it boots. Also before I power up the control box, I am able to manually turn the steppers. Once the control box is powered up, the steppers are locked like they have power and are awaiting commands. I'm pretty sure that I'm not running the offline software because when I run the software with the control box off I get the <128> error and when the box is powered up I don't get the error. Also, when I run the offline software and press the HOME button on the keyboard, it doesn't take me to the homing screen. I looked back thru the book that I got with the lathe, and it says to run FANUCML for a Microturn, FLSTEP for a Novaturn, and FLSTEP for a MIRAC PC. When I try the FLSTEP I get the cycling relays and the loading MINT 3.28 message which hangs the PC until I power it down. If anyone has any more suggestions, please don't hesitate to throw them out there. I'm willing to try anything. If anyone has a copy of the original disks from 1992 I'm willing to pay for a copy of them too. Thanks,
Wiley

Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Sat 16 May , 2015 16:45 pm

Here's the latest update. I had a bad door switch. Now that it's repaired, I can home the machine, I can jog the machine and I can rotate the turret, but so far I can't get the spindle to turn. Not sure what that's all about yet. You were right about the software. MIRAC.APP is the one to use for this machine. Thanks for the help so far. I may be back begging again if I can't get the spindle to turn.
Thanks,
Wiley

Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Thu 21 May , 2015 14:31 pm

I've pretty much got the spindle problems narrowed down to the KEB 07.58.200 motor driver. I'm not sure if the guy that I bought it from made any changes to the configuration and I haven't been able to find any documentation on it. I have found a place here in the US that says that they can repair it. Before I spend $400-$500 to have it repaired there's one more thing I need to ask. My lathe has a Microcentric air chuck on it. Does anyone know if there is logic somewhere in the control software or control hardware that says that the chuck needs to be closed before the spindle will turn? The .OPT file has a line in it for the chuck, but I'm not sure that I completely understand all of the lines in the file. I don't see anywhere on the electrical drawings that indicate a closed chuck condition must exist before the spindle will rotate, but that doesn't mean that I haven't just missed it. Also does anyone know which newer KEB drive would replace the 07.58.200? I've tried to contact KEB but so far I haven't gotten a response.
Thanks,
Wiley

TDIPower
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by TDIPower » Thu 21 May , 2015 18:39 pm

from what you have said it makes sense that the spindle wouldn't spin until there was an indication that the chuck is closed (safety interlock). have you checked any sensors/switch's that would be on the check/air line? I've never had any dealings with air chucks so don't know how they work. Is a constant pressure required or a pressure to open pressure to close?

Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Fri 22 May , 2015 5:33 am

From the info that I can find on the chuck, it takes 100 psi to operate correctly. There are relays on both sides of the valve that operate the chuck. I guess I need to do more fiddling with the chuck and make sure that it completely closes and releases before I do any more with the motor driver.
Thanks,
Wiley

Wod
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Hardware/Software: 1992 Mirac PC/FLSTEP

Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Wed 02 Sep , 2015 14:45 pm

Well, I sent my KEB Combivert to the repair shop. They kept it for 3 months and returned it saying that they were unable to repair it. According to the folks at KEB, it has been discontinued for years. They tell me it can be replaced with a KEB 07F5C1B-KB0A. I guess my next step is to try to find a new one and figure out how to wire it.

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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by angel-tech » Wed 02 Sep , 2015 17:55 pm

hold on that repair/replace, i had an air chuck on my easiturn and i'm pretty sure there was an interlock that prevented the chuck from activating when the jaws were open.

Wod
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Re: 1992 Mirac PC Computer to Control Box Cable

Post by Wod » Sun 02 Oct , 2016 19:17 pm

It's been exactly a year since I last posted about my Mirac, but I did finally get it running last week. I got really frustrated with it and it's just been sitting. The company that said they could rebuild my KEB motor controller kept it for 3 months, then sent it back and said they couldn't fix it. Checking for new and used KEB motor controllers, I found out exactly just how proud KEB is of their products. They want from $850-$2000 for them depending on new or used status. I finally decided on an ABB ACS150 controller which I got for $200. It took me a couple of weeks to figure out where all the control wires were supposed to be and how to set all of the parameters correctly. The 2 core screen marked on the electrical prints are the two wires that control the speed of the motor. On the KEB one of them was connected to the REF along with the reference wire. I had to separate the two for the ABB controller. Once I got everything running, I found that the controller would never get up to 50Hz not matter how fast I told the spindle to turn. I'm really not sure how I found it, but there is an entry in the MIRAC.OPt file called Slave_spindlefactor. Mine was set to 1.2. After playing with those numbers for a while I found that if it set the value to .55 my spindle operated at the correct speed. Anyway, everything is running fine now and I'm very happy with it. I did consider converting over to Mach4 and redoing all of the electronics, but that would have cost about $1000 and Mach4 doesn't support G70,G71,G97,etc. and I didn't want to loose those commands. That's all for now. I gotta go make some chips.

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