Router Motor Dies mid machine run

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charcoal
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by charcoal » Sun 21 Feb , 2010 8:19 am

Hi,
Menai High (NSW, Australia) here again with now another problem. Just a reminder we are using the Compact1000 and have upgraded VirtualMilling to version 5.3.

The router motor itself is stopping mid run. Yesterday, successfully cut one complete side of a car, but only barely started into cutting the mirror side when the router stopped. The X, Y and Z stepper motors continue to do their thing, consequently a stationary router cutter is being driver through the balsa block. Again, today tried cutting a car and got through 3/4 of the first side before the router motor stopped. Stopped the program, re-homed the axis and restarted the program, router motor started up fine. Yet, when re-homed and reset the program to run a third time the router motor did not start.

Have checked the motor brushes and they seem fine. Though is there any information on the minimum length of the brushes available? All connections to the router motor seem fine. Could dust in the emergency switch be a culprit? Although we have not used the e-switch for some time. Any suggestions?

Also, am still occasionally getting this very slow 'miss-homing' effect. Clicking and close vacuuming of the micro-switches seems to resolve this. Though is there a replacement micro-switch with better dust exclusion that we could replace the current ones with?

Many thanks
Ian

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Steve
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Re: Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by Steve » Sun 21 Feb , 2010 15:14 pm

Hi

The problem does sound like the motor brushes.

You could open up the back of the machine and measure the spindle output voltage and see if it is dropping out when the spindle stops.

Depending on the age of the machine there are two PCB types we have used.

The older board has 3 relays together on it (and the long E-Stop relay) The newer board has 4 relays.

If it is the older board then the motor is connected to Conn1 If its the new board then it is Conn 7

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Steve
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Re: Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by Steve » Sun 21 Feb , 2010 15:21 pm

I have posted schematics for the machine.


http://denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2623

charcoal
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Re: Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by charcoal » Tue 23 Feb , 2010 10:32 am

Successfully cut one complete car this morning, started on second car and got about half way before router motor stopped. Have been in contact with REA late yesterday, they supplied an exchange router motor later today, bench tested it (ran OK) before installing it into the CNC mill. No luck!! Axis motors operate as per normal, but the router motor did not start.

Took side panel off and switched spindle on/off via virtual switch in the 'jog' control panel, watched relay switch in and out.

Swapped original motor back in, restarted program. Motor did not start. Shut down everything and rebooted. Still no joy.

Shut down again and disconnected power. Performed continuity test from motor back to junction box. All connections tested good. Reconnected power.

Rebooted and loaded machining program. Router motor ran VERY briefly and shut down, axis motors continued as expected.

Gave up.

Ideas?

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Re: Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 23 Feb , 2010 11:11 am

When the motor dies, is the spindle relay (RL5?) still energised ?
If it's not then either the Baldor control card has turned off the spindle run output for some reason, or there is a dodgy contact inside the guard switch/lock

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Re: Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by Steve » Tue 23 Feb , 2010 12:34 pm

I attach the section out of the compact 1000 fault finding guide.

Spindle Circuit
The spindle circuit on the Compact 1000 is very simple as the motor is either on or off and is connected directly to the mains supply switched through the E-stop Relay and the Spindle enable Relay.
Relay 2 is the Spindle enable Relay. The coil of this relay is energised when Output 0 turns on provided that the guard interlock contact is closed. Then provided the E-Stop relay is energised (which it would have to be otherwise the logic would not let output 0 turn on) the 240V is connected to the motor.
The Mint logic checks that the machine is not in E-Stop, the Guard is closed and that there is a demand for the spindle to start before letting Output 0 turn on.
Pressing E-stop would cause the E-Stop and Enable relays to de-energise and disconnect the spindle motor.
Relay 3 will de-energise when either the spindle is running or the E-stop is pressed or the power is removed from the machine. This locks the guard to ensure the machine is safe. The relay re-energises (unlocking the guard) after a time delay once the spindle has stopped or the power has been applied.
Note: There is a switch on the spindle motor. This should be left in the on position!
FS2 a 10A F rated fuse protects the spindle.

viewtopic.php?t=1641

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Re: Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by Steve » Tue 23 Feb , 2010 12:46 pm

From your description we can see that the problem is not the motor or the E-stop. If the E-stop failed then the axes would also be stopped and the message would be displayed.

The fault has to be in the spindle enable line of the wiring.

When the spindle is running there is a green blob displayed in the control panel window (it goes red when not enabled). If this is green and the spindle is not running then we know the control card is sending the enable signal, (also the guard will be locked).

If this is the case then RL2 should be enabled. You should be able to see this :?: If Relay 2 is not enabled and the guard is locked and the green indiactor is showing the spindle to be enabled then we are looking at a fault in the guard switch or wiring.

I asked earlier in the post what PCB did you have. Is it the one with 4 control relays or 3.

Once I know this I think I will be able to guide you to a solution.

I suspect one of the guard signal wires will be clamped incorrectly on the PCB connector and making an intermittant contact.

Please confirm
The guard is still locked when the spindle fails to run
The green indicator on the control panel is still green
If relay 2 is energiseing or not. you should see the relay toggle as you start and stop the spindle in jog mode.

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Steve
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Re: Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by Steve » Tue 23 Feb , 2010 12:50 pm

If relay 2 is energising and de energising as you toggle the virtual on off switch then there is only the Spindle fuse, the Spindle enable relay and the E-stop relay left in circuit.

Have you checked the Spindle fuse?

Can you check the voltage out of the PCB going to the motor plug?

If you identify the PCB or post a photo of it I will identify where to measure.

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Re: Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by Martin » Tue 23 Feb , 2010 23:20 pm

It may be worth checking the position of the overide switch on the Bernstein door switch. There is a small circular disc on guard lock. The arrow needs to point to the lock symbol & should be clamped in positon with the screw. It may be that the disc is not lined up correctly. If it's not the reason then try pushing the door lock when the spindle fails to run. It may be a faulty guard switch.

charcoal
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Re: Router Motor Dies mid machine run

Post by charcoal » Fri 26 Feb , 2010 23:07 pm

Apologies for not getting back to you earlier, I've been sick with the flu over the last few days and have spent most of my time in bed.

However, problem resolved!!

As it turns out a modification made by Carb-a-Tec who services these machines for REA was the fault.

Background story.
When the machine was initially delivered to us, the router motor was hard wired in. Paul Bray pointed out that they (REA) usually had this modified with a plug and socket installed in the power cable of the motor near the motor itself. This arrangement allowed easy removal of the motor for repair/maintenance under REA's motor exchange program. As the motor was hard wired in, Paul suggested that we leave off having the connection modified until the motor required a major service. About October last year we had to have the motor service as the bearings were finally giving up. To do this the whole machine had to be shipped off to Carb-a-Tec.

Whoever the electrican was who did the modification, he had soldered the active and neutral leads to the metal receptacle contacts inside the socket. The solder job was good enough to allow the motor to run for several jobs. But the soldering to the neutral connection had produced a 'dry' joint and the vibration during operation finally caused it to break. Because of the limited space inside the plastic shroud of the socket housing, the break seemed to have been mostly held together and hence we were getting this issue of an intermittent fault. With the swapping around of motors and the accompanying unplugging and plugging in, the break was opened up sufficiently so that there was no longer any contact between wire and the socket contact. What is probably really annoying, is that when I put the original motor back in, I had made a point of ensuring that the socket and plug where pushed together firmly. This must have forced the break closed and consequently the motor ran for a period of time. Certainly long enough to cut out a complete car and get well and truly started on a second, before vibration once again opened up the break.

Just goes to show, look for the simple things first! (K.I.S.S.)

Mike and I would like to extend some considerable thanks for all the effort that you guys have gone to, to help us resolve this problem. All the information and advice will be kept, as I'm sure that at some stage we will probably need it.

Until next time,

many thanks

Ian and Mike
Menai H.S.

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